Industry Committee on June 10th, 2022

[Dr. Diane-Gabrielle Tremblay]

Well, I think some people have mentioned the various solutions.

We mentioned immigration as one of the solutions, but it's not the only one. Actually, I would say that is the main thing that we need to take into account. There's not one solution. There are many. The immigrants, yes, and women, if you make sure that women have the possibility to be in the labour market with day care. Eliminate discrimination in the highly masculine sectors. A lot of masculine sectors—we surveyed them again recently—don't see the interest in putting forward work-life balance measures, especially in terms of working time. They don't think that's interesting.

Actually, not only are women interested, but we had a survey with men in February, and men also say that work-life balance measures, work-life articulation and working-time issues are important for them.

We've mentioned mentoring—

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Fantastic. I'm sorry, but I think I'm just about out of time. Maybe you could submit this in writing, if you don't have time to say it.

I think you had some immigration suggestions and maybe you could submit those in writing—the suggestions you would make to IRCC in order to fix some of those issues as well.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Williams.

We'll now move to Mr. Fillmore for five minutes.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for taking the time today and sharing their experiences. We're all very grateful.

I'd like to stick with the labour theme here. A number of colleagues on the committee have brought up some very fascinating points, and perhaps we can even get an answer to Mr. Williams' last question.

I'll start by noting that earlier today, Stats Canada released its job figures for May, which showed an unemployment rate of 5.1%. That's now the lowest unemployment rate on record since we've been tracking it. In a way, it's a really positive economic indicator, but obviously, we have these terrible employee shortfalls, the million missing employees that Mr. Williams mentioned.

I'd like to tie this back to the federal and provincial governments. I want to direct this question to Ralph Suppa, Tania Johnston and perhaps Dr. Tremblay as well for her perspective.

How do the federal and provincial credentials and credentialling processes impact your ability to hire? That's about the credentials and what we can do better. Let's expand that to what we just heard about foreign credentialling and how we can acknowledge and accept foreign credentials on a faster basis.

If you'd like to jump in, either Ralph or Tania, please do so.

[Ralph Suppa]

I think we need a national strategy solution here. We've been piecemealing this. We need industry and government, provincially and federally, together to talk about these things.

Labour mobility is such an important topic right now. It's impeding movement. We also have, for example, Alberta and Ontario, which have different credentials. In Ontario, we used to have what was called OCOT, the Ontario college of trades, which would recognize the criteria. Alberta had its own recognition. What we're trying to do is create a level playing field right across the country to break down those barriers and meet a consistent need, so that it isn't a challenge, moving forward, right across the country.

We would propose a national strategy of the key people in each province, and federally and with industry. We're only one sector, on the plumbing side, but there's an electrical side and a heating side that are also facing the same challenges. That is one proposal we could put together as a solution.

Tania is very close to this as well, and then I'll also give it over to Professor Tremblay to tell us just...but Tania is living and breathing this every day in terms of her members.

[Tania Johnston]

We're already facing—and hearing from our members—a shortage of refrigerant mechanics needed to install heat pumps. Vancouver is facing this shortage. Our contractors are having to go to the U.S. to find people who can come up and assist in achieving this. They have had to send them to the U.S. for training. We've had industrial contractors in Sarnia who have had to go to the U.S. to find industrial mechanics to come up and work.

In the foreign worker program, there is a lot of red tape, as you all well know. By the time they get through the process—let's say it's six to eight weeks when they get the interviews—the people who get processed to come to Canada have moved on and are now working elsewhere, in the U.S.

If we can somehow address the temporary foreign worker program and speed up that process.... MC Canada belongs to an international alliance group with MC of America, Australia and England. Everybody is facing the same issues. We're working closely together to try and deal with some of this red tape as well.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Just before we go to Dr. Tremblay, if there will still be time for her, I'll stick with the domestic trades here for a moment.

I wonder if you were aware that, several years ago, the past premier of Nova Scotia and the past premier of New Brunswick collaborated to harmonize the certification requirements for tradespeople. It turned out that they were different for different trades and different provinces, and you wound up competing and losing people who were siphoned off, so the idea was to harmonize all that.

If you've heard of that, I wonder if that's the kind of thing you think would be suitable across the country, so that everyone is working from the same playbook.

[Ralph Suppa]

Yes, Mr. Fillmore, I believe it dealt with gas fitters, and there are different requirements for gas fitters across the country. Through the Standards Council of Canada, we're working with them now to create a level playing field and make it a bit easier to move across the country.

There's work already happening, but it's a slow process, and sometimes some provinces have to be prepared to give something up at the expense of another province. That's why I mentioned before that industry needs to be engaged as part of these conversations.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Do you have any comments on the ratio of journeymen to apprentices? I hear that the ratio is 1:1, and it needs to be maybe 5:1. Do you have any comments on the fact that there aren't enough journeymen or experienced tradespeople to go around?

[Tania Johnston]

That's exactly correct. With the retirements, you're seeing a lot of journeymen who are retiring, and for the contractors, there's that hesitancy to bring on apprentices, because it takes them so long to get upskilled, and they're not always keen to take on four or five first-year apprentices. They'd much rather have one journeyperson.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

If there's any time left, Dr. Tremblay, is there anything at all you wanted to add?

[Dr. Diane-Gabrielle Tremblay]

I would agree with what people have said.

I might just add one thing, being from a university. I think we also don't do much to keep our foreign students. We spend a lot of time training these people, and, unfortunately, we don't keep them that much, and that's another source of labour force in Canada.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

How's my time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You're over by one minute.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you for your indulgence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

That's no problem.

We don't have time, colleagues, for a full third round, but we have about five or six minutes left for questions, so I will go with the next one on list, Mr. Chambers, and then, Sébastien, Brian, Viviane or Han, if you have any questions, just raise your hand to let me know, and we'll have some time for more questions.

Mr. Chambers—Adam—the floor is yours.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to our witnesses. Thanks for a rich conversation this afternoon.

In the couple of minutes that I have, Mr. Caron, you mentioned some of the prices that those in the agriculture community were facing, including for fertilizer. Have you heard from government about what it intends to do with the amounts collected from the fertilizer tariff as a way to perhaps alleviate some of the price pressures on the agriculture community?

[Martin Caron]

No. We have made requests on this subject, knowing all the more that beyond the tariff, the price is extremely high at the moment, and, unfortunately, we have not had an answer. This is why we are asking for a program to be put in place quickly to help agricultural businesses with their cash flow. We have not had a response.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have a similar question and final question to Ms. Anghel. We know that the boat tax is going to affect a significant number of sales, but the government will get some revenue from the luxury tax.

Have there been any conversations about what the government might do with the revenue from the luxury tax to support a manufacturing industry for boats in Canada?

[Sara Anghel]

This has not been discussed with us at all. I'm not aware of what it's planning to do with the revenue.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Chambers.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Caron, I had the opportunity to speak in the House this week, including on several of the solutions that you mentioned to address the needs of the Union des producteurs agricoles, at least the ones that I have been told about back home. One of these solutions concerns the Advance Payments Program. It's about increasing the interest-free portion of the loan to $200,000 to give our agricultural producers some breathing room.

Can you tell us more about that?

[Martin Caron]

I could let Mr. Tougas answer that question.

[David Tougas, Coordinator, Business Economics, Union des producteurs agricoles]

It would definitely give some sectors more cash flow. It's mainly the interest rebate that is interesting. You have to understand that in most sectors, like the grain sector, that additional amount is often reduced on the lines of credit of financial institutions. So it doesn't always provide real additional liquidity. However, with the rise in interest rates that we are seeing today, it is certain that the interest rebate does give some breathing space to all agricultural enterprises. As for the maple syrup sector, it works differently, but there is a very specific request from this sector to increase the interest-free portion of the loan to $200,000.