Industry Committee on Jan. 27th, 2022

[Jeff Labonté]

The U.S. actually has tendencies very similar to Canada's in this space. They have a list that's similar to ours. The list overlaps with Canada's quite extensively.

The responsibility for critical minerals in the U.S. is scattered among a number of different departments. Their stance has a much stronger focus on defence and security. It's part and parcel of the larger global context.

We work with the Department of Commerce, the Department of the Interior, the Department of Energy and the State Department. In that space, the U.S. has, like Canada, a sort of strategy in terms of pushing on the research side and building up processing capabilities, gathering better exploration and geoscientific information, which is really about understanding the resources better, and then investing in the supply chain all the way through, such that the manufacturing sector and the defence development sector—whether it's automobiles, renewable energy or energy storage—have the feedstock and the critical minerals that are going to supply those value chains to grow and prosper.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gaheer.

It is now your turn, Mr. Lemire. You have two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Kennedy.

Given that natural resources, which belong to the provinces, are included in discussions with foreign partners, are calls being made?

[Simon Kennedy]

I'm not necessarily privy to the details of the discussions between my officials and my colleagues' officials in other departments with, for example, their American counterparts. I don't personally attend some of these meetings.

I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Labonté, because I know that there has been a substantial amount of discussion on the minerals issue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

However, in Canada, with the provinces, is it—

[Simon Kennedy]

Sorry, Mr. Lemire. I thought you were talking about discussions with the Americans or with other nations.

Perhaps Mr. Labonté would like to answer this question.

[Jeff Labonté]

Yes, of course.

Thank you for the question, Mr. Lemire.

We have an annual meeting involving the provinces, territories and the federal government. It's called the Energy and Mines Ministers' Conference. In addition, working groups involving assistant deputy ministers and deputy ministers meet often.

In terms of critical minerals, we talk once a month with my colleagues, my counterparts in Quebec and in other provinces. We have very strong ties and partnerships in our activities and in information sharing and science. We also have discussions with the industry regarding investments and things of that nature.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Kennedy, in the pan-American strategy of the joint plan with Canada and the United States, will processing and marketing be done in Quebec by Quebec companies?

Can you provide any information on this?

[Simon Kennedy]

I think that Mr. Labonté could answer this question.

Mr. Labonté, do you have any information on that?

[Jeff Labonté]

We have discussions with Quebec companies and other companies, but the discussions between the businesses are somewhat vibrant discussions with companies that work [Editor's Note: Technical difficulty]. It depends on the type of discussions, such as natural resources or minerals, the processes for manufacturers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire. Your time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Labonté. [Editor's Note: Technical difficulty]

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

In this past year and a half we saw how vulnerable the auto industry is with regard to microchips. Sadly, those were actually produced in Mississauga for years, and we watched Taiwan actually bring in a national strategy to usurp that business. Even the United States is building it back. We're not doing anything over here of any significance whatsoever.

I don't share the same optimism on batteries. Mr. Kennedy, we have a big fat zero on the scoreboard right now. We have nothing. What portion does the United States have with regard to electric batteries?

About an hour's drive from where I am in Windsor, Ontario, is Lansing, Michigan. They just got another plant—another one—and New York state has even announced that over $150 million is going there as an investment in parts and components for electric vehicles.

What does the U.S. have? At least we're tied with their supply chain and Mexico [Technical difficulty—Editor] get an idea? At least we're still tied with those two other countries that have been expanding their auto production quite significantly and also their battery production, whereas we haven't, but at least we have partners that are.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I believe Mr. Masse's testimony was interrupted, probably again due to a broadband issue. Perhaps he could just finish the last part of his testimony again so that all of us can hear it. Even the interpreters couldn't hear it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Fast.

This is what I'm looking for. We're tied with the United States and Mexico in processing and production. What is their footprint for electric battery production and parts production versus that of China, for example? Do you have that?

If you don't have it, could you get that information back to our committee? I'd be interested in knowing where we are at.

[Simon Kennedy]

Mr. Chair, I don't have the facts right in front of me, but I'm very happy to follow up with a piece of paper to the committee.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That would be excellent. Perhaps if you're going to do that, you could expand it to other operators in Europe as well, because you'd probably have all that data together if it's there.

I'll cede the floor, Mr. Chair, because you've been very generous with me on going over my time. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Généreux, go ahead for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a question for Ms. Henderson.

Yesterday, we heard from Guy Saint -Jacques, a former Canadian ambassador to China. He said that China seems to be increasingly using trade as a form of political weapon. Those are my words. The most recent example, of course, is the arrest of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and then the exchange involving Ms. Wanzhou.

Are you concerned about a future where the security and freedom of Canadians abroad are threatened if Canada doesn't agree to everything that China asks for or tries to buy from Canadians?

[Cherie Henderson]

Thank you for the question, which I'll answer in English.

As we have stated before in public reports and [Technical difficulty—Editor] last year, the Government of China is pursuing a strategy for geopolitical advantage on all fronts—economic, technological [Technical difficulty—Editor] of state power to carry out activities that are a direct threat to our national sovereignty and our national security.

While China is a partner to Canada on some fronts, it is also a sophisticated and powerful player in the field of intelligence. We as an agency are very attuned to watching any foreign interference activity that we see. We collect and we assess and we advise government on a regular basis.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

On that note, some of the witnesses whom we heard from yesterday, including Wesley Wark, want to see more transparency in the national security investigations that you're involved in. They believe that it would be in the best interests of Canadians to be better informed.

If Canadians really knew the extent of China's global ambitions, do you think that they would consider the acquisition of Neo Lithium acceptable and in Canada's national interest?

[Simon Kennedy]

Mr. Chair, let me answer the question.

We plan to increase transparency. [Technical difficulty—Editor] an annual report, and we discussed for the first time [Technical difficulty—Editor] national security operations. We include more and more details in our public reports each year. The most recent version, which we'll release to the public in the coming days, includes more information.

In contrast, experts have observed that, when we provide more and more details about our concerns and investigations, we risk showing our action plan to our [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Chair, there's a sound issue again. Several witnesses are having the same issue. I didn't hear three‑quarters of our colleague's response.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

The clerk is telling me that there seems to be some sound issues and that they're trying to resolve them. You can hardly hear the sound anymore. Is that right?

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Yes. Since the start of the meeting, when the witnesses answer questions, there have been interruptions. We don't hear the whole response.