Industry Committee on Nov. 14th, 2022

[John Schmeiser]

In terms of a used piece of equipment, perhaps it is a bigger issue for the right to repair. However, that's where the industry has stepped up to that customer or that third party repair shop to make everything that a dealer can access available to assist in that repair.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thanks.

To the gentlemen from LKQ, do you have any comments on that at all?

[Derek Willshire]

I'm not sure how comfortable I am in making the difference between old and new vehicles. Again, we're not advocating anything that would void the warranty through modification. We are just advocating access to information on any vehicles, new or recent, for the industry.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you very much.

I think I have 30 seconds or a minute left. I'm going to cede my time to Bernard Généreux, Mr. Chair.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you to my colleague.

I thank the witnesses for being here.

My question is for you, Mr. Willshire.

The auto repair industry is present across Canada and is largely made up of small businesses. Take, for example, all the neighbourhood garages. Would Bill C‑244 spell the end to that reality? There's also talk of the labour shortage just about everywhere and the need for local and regional repairers. This applies to the agricultural sector as well as to the automotive sector, for example, and it is beneficial both in terms of the environment and price, among other things.

Will we see the end of that?

[Derek Willshire]

I'm going to give you a straight answer from the heart: What we're asking for would prevent the erosion of those businesses, protect the 491,000 employees in the automotive aftermarket industry, and at the same time not put jobs on the manufacturing side at risk at all.

If nothing is done and there's no governance of the CASIS agreement, which is outdated, the risk you're talking about would be even greater. We are seeing it more and more.

So, I'd say that there is in fact a risk in that respect.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

No, Mr. Généreux. Thank you for asking.

I now give Mr. Longfield the floor for five minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's a very interesting discussion today. I was part of the previous discussion when this issue was before the industry committee.

Mr. Willshire, where you just left off is something that hits quite close to home. I had a hydraulic repair shop in Winnipeg. We did repairs on tractors and combines during combining season when there was no time to wait for supply chains to catch up. We had to figure out ways to get tractors going again.

Could you speak about what this bill could do to support the improvements to supply chains, especially during critical periods?

[Derek Willshire]

Thank you for your question, sir.

Again, I think my colleague Tyler said it best. It's a huge step in the right direction. We are going to need more, but there has been a lot of talk today about training, about safety. These shops, whether they're mechanical or collision, have very dedicated and skilled employees. AIA has committed lots of resources to improve training and stay up to speed. At LKQ we're also committed to that. I-CAR has lots of courses out there.

I don't think it's about skills. I really want to bring this back to accessing that dire, important data in a readable fashion that would help these shops continue to repair vehicles of whatever nature they may be.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

When you talk about the data, and I'm thinking about the J1939 standard, the heavy equipment standard for data, lots of people who are on farms or in rural communities are developing equipment using a standard that then can communicate with their tractors or their power units, doing things around precision agriculture or even processing of food using a pump that otherwise would be found on a piece of equipment on the field. Having the right to repair would be stimulating innovation in rural communities. Is that something you've had experience with?

[Derek Willshire]

I can't comment on that. The agricultural industry is really not my forte.

Tyler, have you anything you want to add?

[Tyler Blake Threadgill]

No. I would say on the automotive side that data is the data needed to repair and maintain a car. It's something that historically has been available, plugging in through the OBD-II port, and it is now being shut down, as it's being transmitted wirelessly.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I worked with a company in Quebec City. Maybe I shouldn't get too specific, but they were developing computer modules that would then talk to that communication system in order to provide....

I'm trying to be as anonymous as I can on this, because of the company and the business they were doing. They were using that data to do things, to interact with other computers that would then signal for other things to happen. Again, there was innovation going on based on the network that was on the machine, but then other communication networks were developed to do innovative and complementary tasks. Not having access to that would then stifle innovation.

[Tyler Blake Threadgill]

We are certainly pro-innovation. Cars are becoming smarter every day, and we want that innovation to continue.

I would say, as cars are becoming smarter, a couple of things are important. We want the data to be safe. We want it to be transmitted safely, but I also think there are going to be more instances in which that data is necessary. Every car on the road now has censors everywhere. You're no longer just putting a bumper back on. You have to calibrate those sensors to make sure they work properly, because everybody is now used to the beeps going off when they back out of their driveway. If those are off, you're going to see more accidents. We need to make sure that this data is transmitted safely.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Some comments were made around overriding environmental standards. Is there other legislation that's protecting us against people who are overriding those standards? I guess maybe that's a question for the other panellists as well.

[Tyler Blake Threadgill]

It has also been mentioned that it's currently illegal.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

That's correct, so there are other laws in place for that.

This is maybe for the equipment manufacturers. Again, I worked in Calgary with one group and in Saskatoon with others. Do you see your equipment being modified in the field and improvements being made that are then picked up by manufacturers?

[John Schmeiser]

Typically the modification that we see is just for better performance, to increase the horsepower or get better fuel economy. Manufacturers, in the relationships they have with dealers, are very strict in their opposition to that.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay, I've had a different experience, so maybe I can leave it at that, because I'm not a panellist.

I think I'm over time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You're just on time, Mr. Longfield. Thank you.

We'll now turn to Mr. Lemire.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My next question is for Mr. Schmeiser.

I also represent an agricultural area. Many farmers have testified that they've had to wait hours, even days, for a technician to arrive from a dealership to diagnose a problem. These delays can be even longer if a farmer needs to transport equipment elsewhere or lives far from a certified dealership. These delays can cost our farmers thousands of dollars, especially at harvest time.

If farmers try to repair their equipment, they could face various consequences. So they need to wait. Even if they do all the right things and wait for an official dealership to do the diagnosis and repairs, they lose part of their livelihood. What recourse is there for these farmers?

[John Schmeiser]

Unfortunately, your example is very real, and that's something that we as equipment dealers want to fix. We do not benefit from our customers being down. We do not benefit from our customers having to wait hours or days on end, especially in seeding or harvest. We want to get the customer up and running as quickly as possible.

Part of the reason we're in the situation we're in I guess starts with workforce development. We can't find enough mechanics to service the equipment that's being sold in the marketplace. We do have remote diagnostic capabilities on pretty much anything that's been manufactured in the last five years, so at least there's light at the end of the tunnel here. We can diagnose equipment even before a failure takes place. That ultimately saves the customer a little bit of money. We don't want our technicians running out to the farmer to see something that they have to go back to the dealership to pick up the part for and go back. That costs the farmer money and that costs the dealer's reputation.

The only way we see a solution to that is to have more mechanics and better rural broadband.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm very sensitive to what you're describing, but I must say that farmers are very resourceful people. However, accessing the technical manual for diagnosing and repairing a John Deere combine, for example, can cost up to $1,000. That's obviously a significant barrier for many people. Why do these manuals cost so much?

Isn't there a solution to help farmers who need to make repairs? Personally, I think the bill is a step in that direction, but I'd like to hear your opinion on that.

[John Schmeiser]

Yes. We recognize the cost. We're very sympathetic to the cost, because for every dollar a customer has to spend on something, that's perhaps a dollar less they're going to spend on the purchase of new equipment. The reality is that the cost of these items is set by the manufacturer, and the retailer is the retail outlet.

We wish that there would be a higher adoption of the special tools and diagnostic equipment that are available to the customers. Our dealers tell us that there is very low adoption. We think our customers are very resourceful. If they have the proper tools that we provide in their hands, they can do a lot more repairs than they're doing right now.