Industry Committee on Dec. 8th, 2022

[Tanya Woods]

That's a huge question. I'm sure you know that, which is probably why you asked.

Passports are a great example. Driver's licences, health cards and anything that relates to needing to show identity is a digital identity use case. It underpins every time you need to take out something to do something. Digital identity is huge.

In my opening, I spoke about crime and what's happening with crime, whether it be the financing of crime or crimes happening through technology. I really can't emphasize enough to this group that it's imperative that law enforcement is funded properly and equipped to handle crimes of all natures, because they're increasingly having a blockchain bent to them. For clarity, though, fewer than 1% of blockchains actually support criminals and criminal activity, so it's a minor piece of it.

When we look at research and data—cancer research, for example—it's making sure the data collected from all the testing that's happening in all the medical research is verified, confirmed and time-stamped, etc. That's very important.

When we talk about the creator's rights, back in 2008 I imagined a world in which licensing was spontaneous for copyrights of all kinds, in any kind of content. I was ahead of my time, unfortunately. Now I get to be happy and see people innovating in this space. Those royalties are worth billions. The entertainment industry is not a small industry. It's huge. So it goes.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I'm ceding one minute of my time to Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I apologize to the witnesses in advance for this.

I'd like to move the motion I gave notice of earlier today. I believe the clerk has circulated it:

That the chair report the following to the House: That the committee recommends that the Government of Canada freeze CPP and EI increases for small and medium-sized enterprises to help offset the financial burdens caused by labour shortages and high inflation.

I will briefly speak to it.

EI, in particular, has been consolidated into general revenues. It is running a massive surplus. It's much higher than needed to support the program. It's at a time when small businesses and workers are suffering from the costs of high inflation. Putting on a higher payroll cost and reducing paycheques in the next calendar year will only harm an already fragile economy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Perkins, for bringing this motion to the floor.

Are there any comments?

I'll just give my two cents, as chair. It's not on the substance of the motion, but on the interest. Given that we have so many fascinating witnesses, we should proceed with this matter as quickly as possible.

Go ahead, Mr. Fillmore.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

It's my strong feeling that.... There's a committee report on SMEs going to the House shortly. That's really the place for recommendations.

I'll add a short, personal editorial. It doesn't seem like the right time, at all—in a moment of inflation—to be giving employers a pass on their contribution to workers' EI and CPP benefits. People are going to be needing those benefits intact and undiluted.

I regret to say that we'll be unable to support the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Fillmore.

I see Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thought long and hard about this motion. I appreciate the intent of it. I can't support it for a couple of reasons, which I think are important to put on the record. I think the intent is genuine.

First of all, I would prefer a system like the one the United States has had over the last several decades. It's called an earned income tax credit. It returns the contributions to workers and their families directly. Small, medium-sized and independently owned businesses get a repertoire of tax breaks that are geared towards various government services, policies and supports. This is actually a 50-year-old legislation. It was originally introduced in the United States by Richard Nixon, of all people. The workers get that money back directly.

I'm also concerned about employees still paying. Obviously, the Canada pension affects the long-term earnings for families.

I'm much more sympathetic towards a small business for something like this, versus a medium-sized one. I know there's a big difference between what they're each going through, right now.

Additionally, with the labour shortage, this is an issue related to wage suppression that could take place against workers with regard to their capital in the free market economy.

Lastly, it would affect the surplus. As New Democrats, we have advocated for changing the EI system quite extensively, for decades. I know it's under review now, but even recently, in my riding, we had severance taken away from workers because of the broken system. We think people who have already paid into...those types of services should be expanded, especially when you have marginalized workers who can't get employment insurance. That includes women, who are overrepresented among those who cannot get EI right now. I would rather expand the EI that people have already paid into...for those workers, versus reducing those opportunities, later on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you Mr. Masse.

Go ahead, Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Although we were in favour of the idea of supporting our small and medium-size enterprises, particularly in view of the labour shortage and inflation, the Bloc Québecois will not support this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I see no further members who want to intervene on this subject.

Mr. Perkins, my astute observation tells me this motion will not pass. Do you want a recorded vote?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I want a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, and thanks for your co-operation in dealing with this matter as swiftly as possible.

You've run out of time, Mr. Williams and Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Dong, you have the floor now for five minutes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for coming today, and we have quite a few of you. I apologize for that little interruption, but that's normal. I want to assure you that this committee is non-partisan, at least less partisan than what's going on in the House.

Speaking of the House, there was a private member's bill that spoke to cryptocurrency, but what we have in front of us—this is the third meeting on it—is broader than that. We've heard from multiple stakeholders from different aspects, and they've given us very valuable opinions on this technology.

First of all, would you agree that this is a broader, more comprehensive study than what was presented in the House?

[Tanya Woods]

This is a broader study than what was presented in the House.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

In your statement and answering the questions, you talk about the current government having provided support in digital technology. Is that correct?

[Tanya Woods]

For digital technology, yes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

In comparison to the last government, because I saw in your resumé that you've been in this industry for 15 years, would you say the current government has made more investments in science and technology?

[Tanya Woods]

I would need the numbers to answer that truthfully.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Could you look at the numbers, because I just want to give the committee a good...? Your testimony is very important, so could you look into the numbers and get back to us?

[Tanya Woods]

Yes, I can.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm sure you have heard this being brought up in question period quite a few times. Mr. Poilievre gave the advice to Canadians during the pandemic that they should invest in cryptocurrency to guard against domestic inflation.

Yes or no, do you think it's good advice to give the general public?

[Tanya Woods]

I don't give investment advice to anybody.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

There you go.

Also, I collect from your testimony that you said you believe there is lack of guidance from the government, or government sectors, or government agencies, and also educational programs for the general public on digital financing. It would be very irresponsible, given the context, to give the general public the advice that they should invest in cryptocurrency to safeguard their savings.

[Tanya Woods]

I'm an incredible promoter of digital skills, digital literacy, cyber-literacy, and blockchain education. I've been supporting the development of programs for digital skills, including the digital skills strategy for Canada since its inception.

I believe there's a lot of literacy generally that Canadians would benefit from, including financial literacy at the most basic levels.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Right.