Industry Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

This is all about jobs. I know time is limited, but I want to say, Madame Lapointe, that it's all about creating job opportunities.

However, it's not just about looking at the jobs of today. It's also about the jobs of the future. That's why, when I talk to CEOs, I say, “Don't ask me what you need next week; tell me where the industry is going 20 years from now.” That is what we have done in aerospace, for example, where we've now seen investments of close to $2 billion.

My point is to leverage private capital to create jobs today, but also to position Canada in the economy of the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

I noticed in your opening address and in your answers that you didn't talk to us about the predictability and stability of the supply chain, factors that are usually extremely prominent in the speeches you give, whether in Washington, Korea or Japan.

With respect to predictability, I see an issue here. We get the impression that you're putting a lot of things on the table in many different spheres, but in some instances, we are waiting for answers. One example of this is the transaction between Rogers and Shaw, and now Vidéotron. We're at a stage where action is needed, because the situation is creating tension and animosity. The Fox project is a particularly good illustration. Trying to find out how the fourth industry player might move in is making it difficult to achieve anything resembling candour. All we're getting is hearsay. I get the impression that the longer we wait, the more the debate becomes clouded. I would therefore like you to take a position on this transaction as quickly as possible.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about bills C‑27 and C‑34.

Why has the government not acted upon Bill C‑27 for some time now? I think you would get House approval to send this bill to the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology. We'd like to study it in committee. There are some areas, such as data protection, for which you have done your homework and reached consensus. As for artificial intelligence, I think we might have quite a few questions to ask.

In any event, we'd like to ask you to put these bills back on the Order Paper.

Why is it taking so long?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm delighted to hear you say that, Mr. Lemire. I have a lot of admiration and esteem for you as a colleague.

If you want to know why Bill C‑27 Is bogged down, then I think you need to look elsewhere, perhaps to your colleagues. We are certainly ready to move forward with the bill.

For Canadians listening today I should point out that Bill C‑27 is the Digital Charter Implementation Act. It includes some extremely important provisions. There is for example the entire part on the protection of children. Ever since the COVID‑19 crisis, children have been spending more and more time in virtual space. All elected representatives are responsible for moving forward quickly with the study of this bill, in order to provide better protection for our children, and as you were saying, to provide a framework for artificial intelligence. I would like artificial intelligence to work for people.

I am delighted to hear that the Bloc Québécois is prepared to support us. I trust that members of the other parties will follow suit, Conservatives and New Democrats alike.

We have an opportunity to adopt a bill that will give Canada a profile throughout the world. I was in fact speaking with my European friends recently, and they were saying that the bill that has just been tabled here was one of the most innovative in the world. I also think that companies would like to see our provisions aligned with those in Europe.

There is some urgency about taking action. I am pleased to hear that we'll have the support of the Bloc Québécois. I'll be asking our Conservative friends in a few moments, to see if they are prepared to lend their support as well.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'd like to bring up another topic that's in your court right now, and that we've been awaiting for several years now. I'm talking about reviewing the Copyright Act.

The industry will say that without this review, they'll be dealing with a blank slate. Access Copyright and Copibec, among others, had some books with blank pages produced to reflect the blank page facing the industry.

What can you say to them about the urgency of adopting a bill that would protect copyright in Quebec and Canada?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm listening to them. It's important to do so.

As you know, however, there are quite a few priorities to deal with at the same time. For example, you've just mentioned bills C‑27 and C‑34.

It is of course important to reform the Copyright Act. I'm working on that with my colleague, heritage minister Rodriguez. I listened to what the industry had to say. I also heard from the universities.

It's definitely one of our priorities. We're going to continue to work with the industry. I have a great deal of respect for creators. They make an important contribution. We need to be there for them and we are going to continue to do just that.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We've also sent letters, to you and your predecessors, about this issue.

I'd like to talk about aeronautics now.

As part of its study on aerospace a few months ago, the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology looked into the urgent need for a national aerospace policy. The committee took a position on it, and underscored the importance of such a policy to ensure that there would be predictability for investments.

The Canadian multi-mission aircraft project is seen as an opportunity to go off the beaten path for future surveillance technology. What you said in Washington raises a number of concerns, however.

What can you say to reassure the aerospace industry about the funding you might be offering and about how it might be possible to provide a structure for Quebec's flagship aircraft industry companies?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You are altogether correct in saying that our aerospace industry is doing well. We made record levels of investment. I nevertheless believe that Mr. Legault , when I was with him and Mr. Trudeau to announce the biggest aerospace industry investment ever.

There's nothing to worry about in connection with our trip to Washington. On the contrary, we went there to look for opportunities for Canadian companies to get involved in major programs, not only in Canada, but around the world.

The reason, or the idea, behind the trip we made there, Mr. Lemire, was to encourage our partners to look at what we're doing here in Canada with car manufacturing. There was, for example, the Auto Pact. There are things happening on both sides of the border. We are in a context where there will be major investments, particularly on defence, not only here at home, but in most of the NATO countries. Canada was considered to be in a good position to be a prime partner.

As I told the industry, our trip to Washington ought to be seen as an opportunity for Canada to open some doors. We spent hours with the CEOs of the largest defence corporations in the world, at least the American ones, to encourage them to work with Canadian companies. Canada has companies like Héroux-Devtek and CAE, which are industry leaders. Our goal is of course to strengthen the position of Canadian firms by sending out the message that they have a role to play in programs not only in Canada, but around the world.

I was able to say with pride, along with our colleague Mr. Perkins, that there is a part of Canada in every F‑35 in the world. It's significant, but we want even more. I said that I wasn't happy with the status quo and wanted more: more investment in Canada and more partnerships. I want the Canadian aerospace supply chain to be part of major American defence programs.

That is precisely the message we, together with the Minister of National Defence, took to Washington. You were with me, Mr. Lemire, and so you know what we said at the Wilson Center. That's also exactly what we told the CEOs of the large corporations in private discussions.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Masse, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. I think you're the ninth minister I've had the chance to—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's actually good. I'll give you credit. You're the busiest—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing, Mr. Chair? I don't know how to take that.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You're the busiest, by far, and that's a good thing.

I want to take one issue up, though. You left Bill C-27 in the hands of us, the members of Parliament. I want to correct the record here. Has your House leader asked for time for Bill C-27? My information is that your House leader has not. Bill C-27 cannot go back to the House of Commons, unless your party brings it there. You brought Bill C-34 instead.

Why won't your House leader bring Bill C-27 to the floor of the House of Commons, if you think it's so important, if you're going to lay the blame on committee and other members of Parliament?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Listen, I'm not in a blame game—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Well, you did.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

No, but—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You said it's not in the House and it's being held back.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We need to work together. I'm saying that Bill C-27 is for Canada. It's not for members of Parliament.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Why won't your House leader bring it forward then?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Listen, my understanding.... I'm happy, Mr. Masse, that you and I work very well together and we've known each other for a long time. I will take it up with the House leader.

My understanding—and I say this openly—is that there were discussions among the leaders of different parties and there was no way forward. If I hear today that there is, I'm more than happy.... I committed to industry and to Canadians that we would have a digital charter as soon as possible.

I'll pose the question to the Conservatives. If they're willing to support it, I think we'll have a way forward.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

At the end of the day, you have control of the House.

At any rate, I think it's important not to.... Nobody's being obstructionist on Bill C-27 here. There are a lot of concerns about the bill. I know the NDP split the bill, in terms of voting, because there are some new sections that are very important for us to go through. There's a lot of interest out there. We're getting a lot of contact at our members' offices.

I want to highlight, though, that it isn't us holding back that process.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I appreciate that. We'll be working together on that. That's what I hear from colleagues around this table.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes. The AI stuff is, especially, of particular importance. It needs a lot of attention.

I want to move on to something associated with your role at cabinet, though, because it's an emerging issue.

I appreciate the work that's been done on auto. We still don't have a national auto strategy, which I would prefer to have, but there have been some good announcements. You've actually done some good work on Stellantis and other types of initiatives we have, and I really appreciate that.

However, right now, the City of Windsor has a disaster mitigation and adaptation fund dealing with flooding and a whole series of things. Your government is in a 60:40 ratio of supporting those projects, but because of inflation it won't move off the percentage it had before.

I'm wondering whether this has been brought to your attention, because keeping cities innovating and participating in these projects will be a big issue if they have to come up with hundreds of millions of dollars, potentially, for projects that were pre-approved. I'm wondering whether that's been raised at cabinet.

I know this is something that might be new, but are you aware of what's taking place? Ontario hasn't come to the table on that to date, which could affect the city's capability to retain employees and make sure we have the proper people in place.