Evidence of meeting #6 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was battery.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 4th, 2022 / 2:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
That's right.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
This is a question for Mr. Dahn. I don't know if Ms. Houde is still with us.
We heard from a witness at a previous meeting about the need to have a resilient supply chain. Canada doesn't need to be the only player when it comes to mining. There are lots of different ways we can contribute throughout the supply chain. Where can Canada best contribute?
I don't know if you have a view in terms of an overarching strategy where Canada can best contribute in terms of the supply chain.
2:25 p.m.
Professor, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
You really should be talking to the mining guys about this, in my opinion.
I think we can really contribute a lot in lithium, graphite, nickel, iron, phosphorus, all these minerals. We have them. We just have to—
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Sarah, do you have a view, not just in relation to mineral exploration, but around the battery supply chain? There is a supply chain here for EVs that has a lot of different players. Where can Canada best contribute?
2:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Propulsion Québec
Exploration can take many years. It could take up to 10 years to actually get that moving. I think that right now is the time for us to order all equipment required for large-scale commercialization.
I still think that cell production is a field in which we can definitely play a role. These cells could also be put into into electric vehicles, making us capable of manufacturing all kinds of electric vehicles, not only in Ontario, but also those mentioned by Professor Dahn, and which are made in Quebec.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thanks very much Mr. Erskine-Smith and Ms. Houde.
I will now turn to Mr. Fast for five minutes.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you very much.
Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing here. Many of you are familiar to me. Welcome.
I want to begin by restating the statement that Ms. Houde made that this may be the greatest economic opportunity in our history, which really drives home the point that this study we're doing is really, really important.
Professor Dahn, thank you for describing the difference between lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide and why they're used in two different battery applications. I drew from your comments that it's as much the performance characteristics of the battery as anything else that would drive a choice between one and the other. Am I correct?
2:30 p.m.
Professor, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
Basically, to synthesize the high-nickel materials at elevated temperature, you have to use the lithium hydroxide. For the lower-nickel-content materials, you can get away with lithium carbonate, which is a bit cheaper, so that's what you do.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Okay, but is it wrong to suggest that lithium carbonate is irrelevant to the lithium-ion battery industry?
2:30 p.m.
Professor, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
Oh, yes, absolutely, lithium carbonate is not irrelevant.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Well, I'm glad you've now debunked something that was stated here by Mr. Fillmore and others.
I do want to go to Dr. Lilly. It's nice to see you again.
Going back to the whole notion of national security, our critical minerals and rare earth elements are subject to national security risks. Is that correct?
2:30 p.m.
Associate Professor, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
That's correct.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
If someone suggests that sourcing lithium from anywhere other than Canada would eliminate that risk, would you agree with that assessment?
2:30 p.m.
Associate Professor, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
No, I don't think I would. Circumstances vary, but we source lithium from outside Canada all the time.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Yes, and that goes now to another question, for Professor Dahn.
You mentioned there are two companies in Canada that manufacture lithium-ion batteries. They're not for the EV industry, but they are lithium-ion batteries. Is that correct?
2:30 p.m.
Professor, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
I really don't know the answer to that, but I imagine Electrovaya would source from a North American supplier like Livent, most likely. E-One Moli's manufacturing facilities are in Taiwan at the moment. They're trying to re-establish manufacturing in Canada. The Taiwan plant is probably sourcing its lithium supply from China, I would imagine.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
If a lithium-ion battery plant were established for the EV industry today in Canada, could it source lithium from Canada today? That's for any of our witnesses.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right, so we have our answer to that. We have to source our lithium, at least in the short to medium term, from outside of the country.
Professor Lilly, why is it that we should be approving the sales of Canadian companies that are actually mining lithium elsewhere around the world when there is such a risk that this particular resource will be monopolized perhaps by one global power?
2:35 p.m.
Associate Professor, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
Whether we should or shouldn't is something that I think deserves a lot of study. In the case of this particular mine in Argentina that was sold, as you intimated, part of the suggestion appeared to be that it was lithium carbonate rather than lithium hydroxide, and because this didn't have an immediate goal for Canadian companies, or at least those that officials talked to, it was deemed to be of less interest.
We should not be pre-emptively deciding the value or worth of these kinds of decisions, potentially 10 years down the road, today without full study. That is why we conduct full national security reviews. It gives time to fully consult and to fully understand the issues. If that had occurred, the decision might still have been for the transaction to proceed, but we will never know because it didn't follow that path.