Industry Committee on March 29th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I'll accept that we briefly suspend so that members can discuss how they want to vote on the motion that's on the floor.

We'll briefly suspend for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Colleagues, we are back in session.

Our apologies to our witnesses. Thanks for your patience.

Everyone thinks it preferable that you amend your motion, Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being honest. I know I was a bit prosecutorial there.

What I will do is withdraw the motion and kindly ask that the information I requested—that is, the Government of Canada investment in Volkswagen—be provided to this committee before our next meeting, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

(Motion withdrawn [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

The meeting is in three weeks, when we resume from the spring break.

I understand that the department will provide a written response to the committee with the information that was asked for by Mr. Vis.

You still have a minute and a half left, Mr. Vis, but I'm tempted to take it from you. I'm not sure you deserve it.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Chair]

If you want, you can pursue your questioning.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I have another line of questioning.

I will say that I do appreciate the collegiality on this.

I have another question for the Department of the Environment.

I was reading our brief today, and it outlined some statistics on plastic waste. How many tonnes of plastic waste are exported from Canada to Asia on an annual basis?

[Dany Drouin, Director General, Plastics and Waste Management Directorate, Department of the Environment]

Plastic waste exports have officially been controlled since January 1, 2021. The vast majority is going to the United States. I don't have the tonnage, but most export waste goes to the U.S.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

With regard to the export waste going to the United States, is it going to processing facilities, or is it going to ports for exportation from America?

[Dany Drouin]

It could be both. We don't have a clear division of stats on those two.

What I can say, though, is that you need an export permit to export outside of Canada. If the waste transits through the U.S., you still need the permit.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

I have one final quick question. Is there a negative and positive list on toxic plastic substances that determines whether those export permits are issued to a company or an individual?

[Dany Drouin]

Yes. The regulation works in such a way that if the waste is covered under one of the annexes of the Basel Convention, which lists different types of waste, and has hazardous characteristics that are portrayed in that waste, it triggers our regulation.

Our regulations also get triggered if the recipient countries consider this waste hazardous, regardless of whether or not we consider it hazardous in Canada. If the recipient countries consider this hazardous, it triggers the regulation and someone needs to have a permit.

For anyone who exports without a permit, it's called an illegal export and is subject to enforcement activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Ms. Lapointe, the floor is yours.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Kimberly Lavoie. It was a pleasure having you in Sudbury and seeing you again at PDAC earlier this month.

We talk a lot about critical minerals and the need for us to ramp up critical minerals. We've identified that there are really only three ways to do that: opening up new mines, ramping up existing mines or looking for minerals through some waste products. Experts, including the International Energy Agency, have suggested that recycling e-waste could alleviate pressure on critical mineral extraction, since most e-waste is made up of several minerals, including critical minerals.

Can you tell us what initiatives Canada has put in place specifically to reuse critical minerals in e-waste?

Then I have a second part to my question: What steps should Canada take to recover more of the high-value materials that are found in e-waste, such as iron, copper and gold?

[Kimberly Lavoie]

I'm going to defer to my colleague from Industry because she deals much more with e-waste than I do.

[Sheryl Groeneweg]

Thank you, Kim.

Thank you very much for the question. I'm going to read my prepared answer, and then we can get into some more specifics on the question you have.

E-waste is both an environmental waste management issue, given the volumes that exist, and an economic opportunity for Canada. I'll note that provincial governments are the lead in regulations and legislation regarding e-waste. That's a very important factor in terms of how that's managed in the Canadian ecosystem, although I would note that there are federal levers related to the treatment of certain toxins in metals, such as mercury, lead and arsenic.

ISED has taken an important role in helping to ensure the longer life of electronic goods by diverting electronic waste from landfills. One example I can describe is the computers for schools program that we have. Through diverting computers that are no longer in their first life of use, they can be taken to another, second life for lower-income people or schools, etc.

There continues to be a significant volume of e-waste in Canada, and that moves through the recycling industry. Businesses in the recycling industry that specialize in the safe disposal of e-waste ensure that components, from plastics to valuable metals, are disposed of properly and re-enter supply chains as recycled content. However, not all recycled inputs have the same value, which impacts the demand for these recycled materials.

In essence, we have a very nascent, burgeoning recycling of e-waste sector, if you can even call it a sector. In some instances, the products of e-waste might go to various offshoots or key inputs of other parts of the manufacturing system. It's quite dependent, as I said in my opening remarks, upon the ability of those products to be absorbed into the manufacturing sectors for which they could become part of the circular economy.

I hope that somewhat answers your question.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

It's helpful.

My next question is for Ms. Nichols.

Can you tell us what the industry is doing? We're focused on the government, but I'm curious to know what the industry is doing to promote the recyclability of its products and to increase the durability of its products.

[Megan Nichols]

Thanks very much.

Certainly, many parts of industry are taking Canada's ambition very seriously and contributing to the solutions. For example, there is the Canada Plastics Pact, which is a collection of a number of companies. About 50 companies are members of the Canada Plastics Pact, as well as universities and municipalities. They are working together to identify voluntary targets to reduce the impacts of plastic on the environment.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Can you tell us how well voluntary actions work to promote that greater electronic recycling?

[Megan Nichols]

I would say that, in general, voluntary approaches can work very well in certain cases. It really depends on a certain outcome that we are looking to achieve.

In terms of the electronics sector, in particular, we have worked with them to create a kind of action plan or road map. One of my colleagues from Environment might be able to speak to that a bit further.

[Dany Drouin]

The voluntary approach is usually very useful if you're dealing with a small number of willing companies. In that case, you always have a different approach, which is that if the voluntary approach doesn't work, regulatory tools could be used. Often, in environmental protection, we'll look at the two different approaches and they can work together, combined.

However, there's a lot of work happening in the industry. You'll hear retailers, for example, talking about what the consumers want and what their employees want. Restaurants are another good example. They sometimes have trouble finding employees if they don't serve with a certain type of cutlery, for example. I see there are no plastics here today.

On e-waste, this is a very valuable product, so it has a higher economic value. Therefore, as a commodity, it gets treated in a more robust way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe and Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Lemire, the floor is yours.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank everyone. I'm happy we have been able to begin this study. I think you have all laid the groundwork very well, as have our analysts.

I initiated this important work at the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology because I believe in the importance of critical and strategic minerals, in particular, in the energy transition. I also believe in the importance of the circular economy in this regard, something we are hearing about more and more, both in the various government publications and in what industry representatives are saying.

I think my colleagues would agree with me that what we also want is to see more predictability, transparency and honesty in everything relating to this challenge connected with recycling. We want to highlight the work to be done to strengthen the implementation of this circular economy. We want to see our things being transformed instead of seeing them just retired when there are still good quality inputs that could be used in manufacturing other items.

I wanted to tackle this study a few months ago now because I think the recycling industry is part of the solution and the extraction and transformation of critical and strategic minerals also presents challenges in terms of social acceptance.

I come from Rouyn-Noranda. You have all heard about the problems connected with the Horne Foundry. Those problems have definitely divided our community and had an impact on social harmony. We can never play with people's health. The main factors affecting health, public health and the environment were obviously the responsibility of the Government of Quebec, and I think it was important for it to table its plans before we started a study like this one.

How do you see the question of social acceptance in a context like that?

Mr. Guilbeault had announced that the federal government—more specifically, the Department of the Environment—had asked questions and requested a study.

What is this study that was requested?

What comments and recommendations, if any, do you have?

[Megan Nichols]

Speaking of the Horne Foundry, I can certainly say, Mr. Chair, that addressing air pollution is a shared responsibility between federal and provincial governments.

The new Quebec ministerial authorization for the Horne smelter certainly tightens obligations on the facility by setting stricter targets for heavy metals in ambient air and requiring the company to submit a plan to achieve the provincial standard for arsenic, over time. We are certainly looking at this authorization and the conditions, and assessing them jointly with our colleagues at Health Canada. We'll certainly continue to support the Province of Quebec and regional health authorities with respect to this issue.

The federal government is also looking at taking action in terms of the development of a health-based ambient air quality objective for arsenic that will represent the highest safe level of exposure to the substance. This voluntary tool could then be used by stakeholders, including provinces and territories, to manage arsenic health risks.

I'll see if my colleague from NRCan wants to add anything in terms of this particular facility.

[Kimberly Lavoie]

As we look at the work that's being done in the critical mineral space, it's very much a balance between economic opportunity and environmental protection. We work very closely with our colleagues at Environment, and we work very closely with our colleagues at Industry, to look at how we can achieve that balance.

The particular situation in the Horne smelter is one that is incredibly unfortunate. It's an old smelter. It's one that has been around for a long time, but it is the only one in North America that is currently recycling copper, and it's recycling e-waste as well. The objective that we are looking towards is how we can allow that smelter to continue to do its important work while still protecting human health. That's the work that's happening with Environment, with Health Canada, with the province, and actually Glencore itself. They have agreed to put in measures. They are putting $500 million into cleanup measures to reduce the emissions, and they have set a target to do that.

I think if we all work together, we can certainly reduce the environmental impacts, improve the outcomes for human health, and still ensure that we achieve our recycling and smelting objectives.