Industry Committee on March 29th, 2023

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

We'll give you a better seat.

Thanks to the witnesses for all their time and all the work they do in the departments every day. I'm extremely grateful. All of us are.

Ms. Lavoie, I'll start with you.

We've heard a lot today about the critical minerals strategy and the importance of critical minerals in all kinds of things, from electric vehicle batteries to defence and telecommunications. The list is long. The demands are great. As we progress into this future, we have to figure out ways to mitigate the pressure on extraction and all the geopolitical, environmental and social complications that come with that. We have to really turn to recycling and using what we have out of the ground already.

I just wonder if you could provide to us what you know of the programs. Which programs are in place now in Canada? What are we doing in Canada right now to extract critical minerals from e-waste and then reuse them?

[Kimberly Lavoie]

Canada is doing some really interesting work, actually. We have a program that is running through the CanmetMINING system in the federal government in partnership with industry and academia. It's called “mining value from waste”. It is really looking at old mines and the tailings of those mines, which contain many tonnes—in some cases, hundreds or thousands of tonnes—of material that is actually usable, particularly in the critical minerals space.

We're looking at extracting the nickel and cobalt that we need for those batteries that we're all looking to put into our vehicles and our storage. We are looking at how we can get those from those waste streams.

It's also a double bottom line because those tailings ponds need to be managed into perpetuity. If we look at extracting value from those tailings ponds, we can also, at the same time, look at environmental remediation to help clean them up. It becomes a source of valuable metals, so it's also an economic opportunity because it creates jobs. It's also improving the environment, which is absolutely a win-win scenario.

There's work that's being undertaken in that space. That work is accelerating as we move forward and recognize that we need to find ways to do more than greenfield mines and look at breaking new ground.

There's also existing technology and new technology that's being developed every single day that allows us to extend the life of current mines. Mines that normally would have a 25-year mine life are now being extended to 35 or 50 years. There's technology that allows people to go deeper, to find new pockets under the ground and to use remote technology so that there's no threat to human life and workers don't have to be in those confined spaces as you go deeper. You can get the ore out of the ground without creating a larger footprint. Both of those are great opportunities.

I mentioned the research, development and demonstration program. That program is very much working with industry to look at innovative approaches to the mining sector. That includes things like recycling and repurposing tailings.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much for that.

I visited the laboratory of Halifax battery scientist Jeff Dahn some time ago. During the course of a fascinating discussion, he talked to me about how important it would be to improve the recyclability of batteries, if there were some standards—much like the universal charger—around the manufacturer.

Is anything happening in Canada right now around a standardized manufacturer to make recycling easier or around standardized manufacturing processes? You described some manufacturing processes a moment ago that are forward-looking to make it easier and cheaper to reclaim those minerals.

Maybe that's for ISED.

[Sheryl Groeneweg]

I'll just add to what Kim mentioned about programs.

The $1.5 billion that was identified in last year's budget to go to the strategic innovation fund for critical minerals also includes a recycling incentive. If there are projects related to some sort of recycling in the critical mineral space, then that would qualify.

That's just to make sure there's a more comprehensive answer to that.

At this time, there's nothing yet on the standardization. It's a very good question. This is a very nascent part of the new development of a brand new sector within Canada and the world.

It's complicated. Let's just take batteries alone. You have to separate the plastics—and the kinds of plastics they are—from the various component parts that could all go off into different new production streams. There are some companies that are getting into this space, not just in Canada but elsewhere, because there is a market opportunity there. Standardization is definitely an interesting policy option worth considering.

I would imagine that this would require a global effort, though. You'd be out of step with the world and it makes it less effective and less considerate of how value chains actually function.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

I just wonder, for anyone on the witness panel who would like to respond, if there is a best practice somewhere in the world, whether it's a jurisdiction, an industry or a company, that is doing the thing that you wish we were doing here toward the ends that we're talking about today.

Is there, like, a shining thing out there that you'd love to have here at home in Canada?

[Patrick Hum, Senior Director, Advanced Manufacturing and Materials Industries Directorate, Department of Industry]

In response, I think perhaps we know too much about what's going on. Actually, there are some Canadian companies that are very much on the leading edge, for instance on battery recycling. There are some really interesting pieces of work in terms of full recyclability and doing it at scale. There's a lot of interest in Canada, particularly as we are growing a battery sector in Canada. The circularity is certainly part of that conversation.

I would say, without naming specific companies, that there are some really interesting technologies and companies in Canada that are actually quite world-leading.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you all very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Généreux, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I would like to thank all the witnesses for being with us today.

My mother always told me: "Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed." What is created on planet Earth therefore stays on planet Earth and is recycled—or so we hope, in any event.

I was the mayor of La Pocatière for four years, from 2005 to 2009. During those years, the Government of Quebec announced a policy calling for all biodegradable material to be recycled or transformed.

That said, 18 years later, 50 per cent of that material is being recycled or transformed. Initially, the deadline was 2015, which was then pushed back to 2020. Today, the target date is 2025. It might even get pushed back to 2030 or 2035.

So at the time, new objectives were set. However, as set out in the document entitled "Greening Government Strategy: A Government of Canada Directive," the Government of Canada committed to diverting at least 75 per cent by weight of plastic waste from landfills by 2030. That is six and a half years from now.

I asked my friend ChatGPT to get me some data. According to that controversial robot, in 2019, in Quebec alone, ten per cent of plastic material was recycled.

I am ordinarily a very optimistic man, but would it be a bit too optimistic to think we will be able to recycle 75 per cent of plastic material in Canada by 2025?

This is 2023, I would remind you. So that is in two years. Personally, I think it is impossible.

So what would be a genuine, realistic strategy?

I repeat: 2030 is in six years. I don't believe that in six years we will be recycling 75 per cent of all plastic in Canada—not because I don't want that to be true, but because we have to be realistic. There are technologies now that allow plastic to be recycled and transformed back into oil. Obviously, we will be inviting a lot of witnesses over the coming weeks and months in order to do this study, which will be extremely interesting.

I have a business myself, and in my print shop, which has about 20 employees, we recycle 95 per cent of all inputs, and have done for over 20 years. We were the first printing plant in Quebec to be recognized by RECYC-QUÉBEC for recycling 90 per cent or more of its materials. It is doable, but it takes a lot of energy to get there.

Is Canada really capable of recycling 75 per cent of plastic products by six years from now? The question answers itself, but I am asking you all the same.

[Megan Nichols]

Thank you for the question.

Indeed, it's a very ambitious goal. We're well aware of that. It's going to take a concerted effort by all players along the value chain—governments, industry and municipalities—to achieve our goal. Right now, this goal is collectively shared across federal and provincial governments. I think the fact that we are all aiming for the same target is a very positive step. Certainly, however, there are a number of challenges we need to overcome.

It's also important to note that some of the measures put in place are only just starting to bear fruit, such as the single-use plastics ban. We announced that we would be coming out with recycled content requirements for plastic packaging. We will have labelling requirements across the country, so there is less consumer confusion about what can be recycled and composted. Some of these are the challenges we're facing in achieving our goal. Moreover, we know we need more infrastructure and recycling capacity across the country.

We won't get there alone. We're probably going to need to do more. At this point, we are optimistic that, together—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I didn't think there were people who were more optimistic than me. We have to believe there are.

[Megan Nichols]

We have to.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

The Town of La Pocatière, where I was mayor, was the first town in all of eastern Quebec to install brown bins, with the help of federal and provincial subsidies, of course. We support recycling.

Initially, we had recycling platforms and facilities for capturing leachate. Those facilities then became a biomethanation plant. It is managed by the Rivière-du-Loup region Société d'économie mixte d'énergie renouvelable, or SÉMER, a supraregional body. At the time, the project was to cost $10 million, but it ultimately cost $25 million. It included the biomethanation plant, which today produces gas, part of which is sold. In any event, investment of about $5 million remains to be made to make it completely operational.

We have developed our capacities, but the plant has still only been in operation since 2010, and it is now 2023. These things take a lot of time, and a lot of money has to be invested before any concrete results are achieved, all our goodwill notwithstanding. We hope to improve regional cooperation for using these new tools and extending that use on a larger scale. However, I do note that Quebec City and Laval have recently abandoned their biomethanation project.

I know I am digressing a bit.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left? It seems like I still have at least five minutes. Be generous. You have been with everyone up to now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You may continue.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I want to add a comment, because you are here and it is important that I say it, concerning electronic waste: telephones, computers, and so on.

In some of our regions in Quebec, not-for-profit organizations are hiring young people with a disability or adjustment disorder. I think these organizations deserve more encouragement, because they are doing an exceptional job in recovering and sorting all materials, if I may put it that way. They offer what are called work stations to help people with a disability. I think the federal government should give them much more assistance so they can continue their good work.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You could maybe become the minister of environment and climate change, but not a timekeeper. Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

Mr. Van Bynen, the floor is yours.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, my colleague Mr. Hardie has one question, so I'll share my time with him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Hardie, go ahead.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Van Bynen.

Plastic isn't one compound. There are many different types of plastic. I have two questions in one: Are there some plastics that are more easily recycled than others? Given that so many of our electronics products come from overseas, do we have a chance of getting some worldwide standards on the plastics used in the various things we're trying to recycle? It would make that process easier, simpler and more productive.

[Dany Drouin]

Thank you for the questions.

I'll answer the second question first. These types of standards can be elaborated on through international co-operation. It is something that is possible. I'm not currently aware of activity in that domain, but this is how international co-operation sometimes creates changes for domestic implementation.

I want to say just this for now. I don't know if Sheryl has more on this. I can then speak to the first question.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Give a very brief answer, in the interest of Mr. Van Bynen, who has questions.

[Sheryl Groeneweg]

No, I have no knowledge of standards that are in the works right now. However, it doesn't mean that there isn't movement in some jurisdictions to attempt that, as this becomes a more and more pressing issue for the environment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Go ahead, Mr. Van Bynen.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me say I'm very happy to be joining this committee. As the mayor of the town of Newmarket, as a regional representative, and now at this level, I've had the opportunity to experience what this whole process is about, from the municipal level to the regional level. One thing I find extremely surprising is that all the initiatives are cascading down from the producers, through the extended producer responsibility program, but there doesn't seem to be any leverage there.

What are we doing to encourage stronger activism on the consumer side? For example, how do you think the retailers would react if the consumers had an opportunity to bring back all of the containers that their merchandise was in? That would create the pressure on the retail side and push it back up to the suppliers. What are your thoughts on that?

[Dany Drouin]

It goes back to the waste hierarchy. You want to reduce waste. You want to reuse. You want to refurbish. The type of model you're describing falls well into that waste hierarchy, which would create incentives for exactly what you're talking about. It is a model that I'm aware some retailers have tried and are using. For example, on containers, you can bring them back and go back home.

We spoke a lot about recycling today, but the actions up the waste hierarchy are extremely useful to reduce waste in the first place. I think this particular model of reusing or taking back is sometimes.... The problem with those models right now, to be frank, is the scale in the replication. They're not at scale in replication, but it's an excellent idea.