Industry Committee on March 29th, 2023

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

There are some provinces that have automatic deposit and return programs. How successful are they? I see that in Saskatchewan, but I don't see much of that in Ontario. Where are the successes in that? What kind of response is there to, let's say, a nickel on pop bottles and all of those plastics that need to come back?

[Dany Drouin]

Those systems are in place in many provinces, such as Quebec and a few other places. They are extremely successful. The return rates are really high, and they apply, sometimes, to plastics, bottles, glasses and different types of containers.

They're very successful.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

At what rate is Canada recycling or donating waste? We saw a chart here in which our performance in relation to other countries is not stellar. Has there been an initiative on behalf of the federal government to take a look at what these other countries are doing and how those things can be applied here? Can you give me a couple of examples of that?

[Dany Drouin]

Yes. In anything we do, we often benchmark or do the previous analysis with what other countries are doing. On plastics, for example, the European Union is.... I want to say it's a set of countries that we are looking at often in terms of circularity, as an example.

With recycled content requirements, for example, there's really interesting work happening in Washington state and a few other U.S. states that we're also looking at. As we develop our measures, we also consider North American markets. It's really useful for us to engage with the U.S.

There is also some interesting work on exports of waste in Australia and New Zealand. Those two are islands, and they have put together different control measures to keep the waste in their jurisdictions.

We often need.... It's actually a requirement of the Treasury Board Secretariat.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Could you submit some specific examples that apply to that, for the committee's benefit?

[Dany Drouin]

Yes.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Do I have any more time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

If you wish, Mr. Van Bynen.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have one really quick question, then.

One thing I found very frustrating is that there's a municipal level of responsibility, a regional level of responsibility, a provincial level of responsibility and a federal. I see that the European Union has started looking at reducing administrative burdens by calling for harmonization of national registries and reporting formats.

What kind of mechanism can we introduce so we have that kind of harmonization that applies more effectively across the country?

[Dany Drouin]

The answer is collaboration with the levels of government across the table, given the jurisdictional powers and shared management responsibilities, generally speaking.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is there any leverage that you would suggest would incentivize that collaboration?

[Dany Drouin]

There's a lot of willingness. Ministers agreed to harmonize, for example, an EPR program. There's a lot of willingness. There have been guidance documents developed together.

The lever you're talking about is how we make those documents real. This is where stakeholders are very useful levers in that conversation. The industry deals with many different programs across the country, so they are advocates for harmonization and they are a very loud voice.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, the floor is yours.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Government of Quebec has prepared a five-year plan to tackle the issue of recycling head on, particularly the recycling of critical and strategic minerals. Some components of that plan deal with mapping and data collection concerning those materials. A research and development network is to be created. It talks about financial support for projects and developing and consolidating energy transportation and telecommunications networks, in particular, within Quebec. It also talks about recycling and reusing critical and strategic minerals.

The plan even proposes a companion leaflet for potential investors for this industry of the future. We have tried a bit to see whether there was something comparable at the federal level, to try to help these industries in a relatively targeted way.

Can you give me some information about what the federal government is proposing in terms of a strategy directed exclusively to recycling?

If it's possible, could you send us that data?

Do you believe that companies in the electronics ecosystem in particular, which covers a broad spectrum, should also consider a modest eco tax on the products sold?

Those funds could also be directed to projects for facility updating or workforce training. That could open up some rather interesting opportunities.

I would be curious to hear what you have to say on this subject.

[Sheryl Groeneweg]

I think my colleagues are looking at me.

Thank you very much for the question. Currently, is there a recycling strategy in the federal government? There is not one ubiquitous recycling strategy. Indeed, as I said in my opening remarks, recycling is very particular when you take it as a sector-by-sector consideration. I think that's part of the dimensionality of thinking about this very important topic.

I'd have to read the Quebec plan a bit more in depth to be able to respond to your question. We will of course respond, perhaps in writing, to the direct request for information that you're making.

There are program tools available in the federal government for industry-led, value-creating, innovative capital projects. One of the biggest programs, which resides in my department, is the strategic innovation fund. Of course, it's an ongoing, rolling intake. If projects come in that tick the criteria for what qualifies for funding and they actually meet the objectives the government has laid out, including on the environment, those projects are very much of interest to officials, as we give advice to the government in terms of what it may or may not wish to fund. There is absolutely availability for high-value projects to be considered.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

Two years ago, I voiced some criticism of the fact that there was no strategic vision for critical and strategic minerals. You now have a policy, and I would invite you to think a bit with the same strategic approach.

I would like to ask you the eco tax question again.

Do you think it could have an impact and help to fund infrastructure or investment in the recycling industry?

[Patrick Hum]

I think the use of an eco tax would probably be something we would need to study and consult on with our colleagues at the Department of Finance.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Masse, the floor is yours.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Similar to the Volkswagen battery announcement, on Stellantis as well, in Windsor, where I'm from, I'd like to get the same information for it that we're getting for that. In the auto industry, there's a lot of clustering that goes on. What is happening with regard to recycling and clustering potential options for these battery plants? Has it been discussed? Is there something happening there? A huge part of the investment isn't just the actual investments; it's the spinoffs. In the auto sector, one job generally creates seven.

Is there a plan there? What's happening with that? Does it include recycling as well? It would be awful if we ended up shipping all of this stuff all over the place, instead of clustering it together, which is the tradition. A minivan made in Windsor literally crosses the border between Windsor, Detroit and other areas about seven times before it's made.

[Sheryl Groeneweg]

I can give a high-level response.

I think all the value chain considerations are in play now in terms of Canada's position on creating very strong, very globally relevant supply chain linkages to the auto sector, including EVs and batteries. I think we would need to follow up in greater detail on your question, which is a complex one and would require some consideration.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's fine.

I guess what I'm worried about as we go on here is that we have a strong Canadian tradition of rip-and-ship with our natural resources. That's different from the auto sector in terms of value added.

I'll end with that, Mr. Chair. The tool-and-die mould industry—the value-added components—is what we're looking at. As we evolve in this, I think we're all trying to be really interested in finding out what we're prepared to do. I remember Allan Rock back in 2003, when we had the national auto strategy round tables in Toronto. They were very effective. We haven't seen that kind of return to date. Other strategies have been employed. A briefing component would also be important to me, as much as the money.

[Sheryl Groeneweg]

On the recognition that maybe historically the country has had a strip-and-ship orientation towards the value of what we have naturally and how we add value, I would say that there's a very deliberate orientation toward creating as much value as possible within Canada's domestic economy. Indeed, in the critical minerals space specifically, EV batteries and the next generation of autos are in some ways a low-hanging fruit. It is the most ready of the areas where there are manufacturing opportunities.

That is absolutely one of the cornerstone considerations of investment and how countries that have less opportunity than Canada need to think about Canada differently in these global supply chain considerations. We have to think differently about our global position now.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's good.

On the transfer of our technology, this is huge. I did a green car strategy with Joe Comartin, our former member for Windsor—Tecumseh, and Dr. David Suzuki back in 2004. Now we're in the platinum age and to miss out on the value added would just be remiss. I'm glad to hear that there are other things, because that bumps it through the other chains.

Thank you. It's exciting to hear.