Industry Committee on April 19th, 2023

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

That's great—thank you. Thank you for your support for the budget as well.

Are there further steps we can take to increase the recovery of critical minerals from e-waste, especially in high-value minerals like iron, copper and gold?

[Thompson Hickey]

I can try that as well.

Currently in Canada, there is recycling of e-waste. At Teck Metals, we looked into developing processing around it. We found it not to be workable. It's really fundamentally around the technology that you can employ.

The subject of Glencore came up earlier. They have facilities in Canada that recycle at the moment.

In terms of further recycling of e-waste, the regulatory framework that was talked about before in terms of exporting e-waste is obviously not helpful for Canada. If those factors can be strengthened, that will be great for Canada.

Overall, in Canada we have the technical capability to further that industry. It does typically take investment, but these are not technical challenges that cannot be overcome.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

That's great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Gaheer.

Before we continue with questions, I'd like to welcome Madam Dawn Madahbee Leach, who is the chairperson of the National Indigenous Economic Development Board.

Welcome to this committee, and thanks for joining us. Before we resume questioning, I'd like for us to have the opportunity to hear your opening remarks.

The floor is yours. Welcome, again.

[Dawn Madahbee Leach, Chairperson, National Indigenous Economic Development Board]

Meegwetch.

[Witness spoke in Ojibwa]

[English]

I just stated my spirit name in my language—Biidaabin Dawn—and said that I'm from beautiful Manitoulin Island and the Aundeck Omni Kaning First Nation.

I want to say meegwetch for inviting me to speak with you today about indigenous people's participation and involvement in the development and support of the electronics, metals and plastics recycling industry. As mentioned, I'm the chair of the National Indigenous Economic Development Board. I work alongside first nation, Métis and Inuit economic and community business leaders from across Canada.

Our board was put in place to advise the whole of the federal government on indigenous economic development. One of the things we have been working on is the “National Indigenous Economic Strategy for Canada”, which was released back in June 2022. That strategy talks about how to engage indigenous people in Canada's economy. It's a great blueprint for the government, corporate Canada, institutions, our people and all Canadians to use as a guide towards economic reconciliation.

When we look at this type of work, we feel that the engagement of our communities and businesses in this industry is something we would welcome. It relates to our responsibility as the stewards of the land. Recycling, reusing and cleaning up waste are very important to us. There's a need to produce better data for, and understanding of, indigenous-specific engagement in recycling and environmental cleanup. We must also use baseline studies, including traditional knowledge studies, to better understand the components of the environment that are valuable to indigenous communities.

Renewing, recycling and reusing have cultural significance for many indigenous communities. Often embedded within traditional knowledge is the concept of a collective responsibility to respect and maintain the earth, and to use only that which is needed for sustenance. Environmental sustainability and ecological integrity must be included in all aspects of electronics, metals and plastics recycling. This cannot be done without the input and involvement of indigenous communities.

We must recognize the important role of the environment in the economic, social and cultural well-being of indigenous peoples, as well as the importance of respecting, preserving and maintaining the knowledge and practices of indigenous peoples that contribute to the conservation of the environment.

There is also an opportunity for increasing indigenous procurement opportunities within this industry. As we know, Canada established a 5% set-aside for indigenous businesses in regard to all government contracts. Despite this commitment to increasing indigenous businesses' access to federal procurement opportunities, year over year, indigenous businesses have received less than 1% of the value of contracts for tendering goods and services to the Government of Canada.

The national indigenous economic strategy I referred to has a call to economic prosperity—number 54—that speaks to this responsibility of procuring indigenous businesses and the services of indigenous companies in the cleanup of contaminated sites. As we know, indigenous communities have been disproportionately affected by pollution and contamination caused by activities that have environmentally hazardous outcomes, based on their location.

For example, Membertou, a Mi'kmaq community located on Unama'ki, Cape Breton Island, had experienced runoff of toxic chemicals from the Sydney tar ponds hazardous waste facility. They discovered polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in the lobster, and extensive consultations and research resulted in the decision to begin cleanup operations in 2009. A contract to operate and maintain a material processing facility during the Sydney tar ponds and coke ovens cleanup was awarded to a local Indigenous company.

I'd like to just share a couple more recommendations.

In areas of the country where the indigenous population is more than 5%, the target for the total value of federal contracts awarded to indigenous businesses should also be proportionally higher.

Training on indigenous cultural awareness for procurement officials should be mandatory, especially in this industry.

Finally, we recommend that the electronics, metal and recycling industry also institute indigenous procurement targets and report annually on whether those targets are being met.

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was also clear that establishing constructive, mutually beneficial relationships and partnerships with indigenous communities would contribute to community economic growth, improve community health and well-being, and ensure environmental sustainability, all of which will ultimately benefit indigenous people and all Canadians.

I just want to say that I heard the discussion on critical minerals and I think there's some good potential for some of the recycling. I know the technology might not be up to par yet for doing that critical minerals recycling, but we'd really like to see if there are business opportunities to become involved, because as stewards of the land we want to have a larger role in making sure we do proper recycling and reusing of waste. We think that is important, rather than just having it stored on our traditional territories.

Thank you for this opportunity to speak today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Ms. Madahbee Leach. You finished just in time.

Colleagues, as expected, the bells are ringing, which means that a vote has been called in the House. I require unanimous consent to pursue our meeting a little further. I would suggest that at 5:55 we adjourn for members to reach the House so that we can vote.

Do I have unanimous consent to continue until 5:55?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

That's great. Thank you very much.

We will therefore continue the conversation.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Leach, kwe. I say meegwetch for your testimony.

The mining industry and indigenous communities have worked together on certain projects in northern Quebec and northern Canada.

Can you tell us about the spirit of collaboration, in terms of economic development and environmental development, between industry and first nations?

Do you believe it's important to process and recycle metals close to the locations where natural resources are developed or extracted?

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

Well, I think that each case would have to be assessed individually on what can be stored. The world doesn't have an unlimited source of copper or lithium. We have only a limited availability of critical minerals. Canada has a lot, but you can't just take them out. We have to start looking at the possibilities of recycling minerals, even if it's a minor amount that we have to recycle for now. We need to look at the best ways to do that.

I know that just taking from the land the important critical minerals that the world needs today is part of the solution to meeting the needs of people globally, but the other side of things is how we can do this sustainably. How can we better recycle what we take out of the earth?

We see lots of landfill sites. We see inground storage of waste where there are still mineral components in that storage. We need to look at this. I think there are business opportunities here to do that, but I think industry has a responsibility to help with that, too. There needs to be a plan beyond the extraction of the resources. The plan needs to include how you reuse and recycle all the minerals out of the waste that exists.

There are really good examples around the world in which waste is already being recycled and they are looking at piles of waste. I can't recall all of the names, but I've heard of a couple of examples, and I believe there are examples in Alaska, where they're doing this already. Other parts of the world are looking at this. Lots of the multinational resource development companies are taking this very seriously and looking at ways they can start to become involved in the solution of recycling.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire and Ms. Leach.

Mr. Masse, you now have the floor.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Meegwetch, Ms. Leach.

With regard to the 5% for procurement that you mentioned—and you said you're only reaching the 1% threshold—can you tell us if there are any expectations? Is there a plan in place to raise that to the next year, or is it just a matter of, oh well, we missed it again this year, so hopefully we'll make it next year? Can you bank that set-aside for a following year? That would be another logical plan, for over five to 10 years, to raise it to that threshold. It just seems to me like a hollow promise if it's 5%, and then we don't do much to make it to 5%, and we hang about, lurking around the 1% to 4%.

I'm from Windsor, Ontario. I'm very familiar with the United States. They actually have hard set-aside numbers for large infrastructure projects. We finally got some money for my riding. The Gordie Howe bridge has a community investment fund. It was a very modest amount, but anyway it was the first time it was done.

I'm almost out of time. Lastly, tell us what happens when you miss the thresholds. What's the next step then?

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

Well, this time around, when the target was set, there was a lot of work in co-developing. Indigenous organizations got together to help the government meet the targets. Some of the things we're working on right now are things like an indigenous-led procurement institute that will host a certified indigenous business directory, and that business directory will be based on a definition of indigenous businesses that we've developed as indigenous people.

We feel that we want to make sure that indigenous businesses are truly benefiting from the procurement targets and the set-asides, because there is an issue right now. Sometimes, if there's a $10-million contract and a partnership with an indigenous company, but that company is only making $1 million, they check the whole $10-million contract as being part of the set-aside.

We're working with Public Services and Procurement Canada, the Treasury Board and Indigenous Services Canada to develop what the criteria are going to be and how they're going to be used. This new indigenous-led procurement institute will be involved in measuring the progress.

We're looking forward to a report coming out later this year on how the government has done in meeting those targets. I believe it's due in the fall, but right now that report won't be using the definition we have of indigenous people. It will probably still be measuring the $10-million contract as opposed to the $1 million that might be going to indigenous business, but as we go further, there is a deadline to meet this target in 2025. It's really important. I think doing this work through a co-development process with indigenous people is going to actually be a better process going forward.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

We have five more minutes, colleagues. Instead of going to a formal round, I will open the floor for any questions you might have.

I recognize Mr. Williams.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Seidel, when we talk about the circular economy, it seems like B.C. is really leading in Canada—as well as Quebec.

We talk about the producer having the responsibility to look at the recycling material, to receive the recycling material at the end of its life, and to reuse it. I think we have talked about something called “out waste”. The example we've had before is that if you go to the grocery store, in Ontario right now you get a paper bag, which is great, but then in it you put your bread, which is wrapped in plastic with a plastic tag. You put your jug of milk in the bag, which is plastic. You put your sandwich, which is wrapped in plastic, into the box.

Obviously, we look at single-use plastics, but we have bigger issues. Could you please tell me, of this “out waste”, as we're calling it, what are the substitutes going to be? What are people going to see in their paper grocery bag going forward, if we do it correctly?

[Dr. Christina Seidel]

The important thing is that we don't necessarily look for substitutes, but instead for ways to reduce material. That's the piece we always miss. We think that if we can recycle something, it's okay if we produce it, but instead, we need to look at the system.

Shopping bags are a perfect example. The best option for shopping bags—without question—is reusable bags. We should all be using reusable bags instead of worrying about whether we can recycle the single-use shopping bags we're using. We should not have single-use items unless we absolutely have to. We need to wean ourselves off that crazy thing that's sold on the basis of convenience and that is actually just a bad idea from the start.

Again, we need to start thinking from square one about how we get the service we want without creating waste. There are lots of examples of how we can do that, but instead we so often look at the easiest way instead of the best way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Williams. I'll have to cut you off because I see that Mr. Erskine-Smith also has a question.

Nate, the floor is yours.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks. This is also for Ms. Seidel.

You mentioned extended producer responsibility. That's a core function for the province to tackle in a primary way. As we look at the federal recycling activity and action, there is a strategy in place to reduce plastic pollution, of course, but again, much of this is interjurisdictional.

[Dr. Christina Seidel]

Yes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

You mentioned the role of municipal governments. When we look at electronics waste, at metals waste, what is the role that the federal government should be playing here, over and above what it's currently doing?

[Dr. Christina Seidel]

This again is where we get into the jurisdictional issue, because extended producer responsibility, which is really one of the key answers to electronic waste, is a provincial jurisdiction. The regulations end up being provincial, but there is a move through CCME to try to make those EPR regulations more consistent across the country. That's a good start, because if we get more economies of scale, then we are more likely to get the outcomes we want.

Again, we struggle with this in Canada because of the jurisdictional issues, but as much as possible we need to make that consistent across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

It's too short, Mr. Williams, so we'll—

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

You already answered my question. You're in my head.