Evidence of meeting #7 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decision.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Did someone else outside of the commission influence our decisions? No, we only—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
It could be cabinet or certain companies, for instance.
4:20 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
We make our decision based solely on the record of the proceedings. We put out a notice, parties file evidence and we hold hearings in certain cases. That's what we base our decision on—nothing else.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
My question is whether cabinet tried to influence your decision in any way.
4:20 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
No.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Okay.
In May 2021, the CRTC decided to overturn the 2019 decision.
What had changed in the competitive landscape for that decision to be overturned? It seems to me that the time frame was rather short.
We talked about the time frame for CRTC decision‑making, so in this case it's a relatively short time.
Earlier, you talked about errors, but you didn't list them. It would be interesting to know the errors that led you to overturn the decision.
4:20 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
In a moment, I'll ask my colleague to talk about these errors in more detail.
In the meantime, I'd like to say that this isn't related to a change in policy. The decision is related more to costs.
It was a decision on rates and only rates.
Philippe, could you just briefly describe the process of review and the areas?
That said, the reasons are fully reflected in the decision.
4:20 p.m.
Director, Telecommunications Services Policy, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Thank you, Mr. Scott.
As Mr. Scott mentioned, a lot of information and submissions are required when applying for a review and amendment.
Staff must conduct a cost model analysis for each company that provides wholesale high‑speed access. The analyses are extensive and involve a lot of detail.
We've asked the companies a lot of questions. This data has been reviewed several times. The officials who worked on this file did their best. We did a full analysis and made recommendations to members that contained errors. These were due to the fact that a very large number of factors were taken into account in the cost review.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Okay.
Mr. Scott, the public perception of people in a position like yours, or like mine and my colleagues', is often more important than reality.
Your meeting with the president of Bell in an Ottawa bar may seem harmless. You said that the meetings follow CRTC rules and are recorded when you meet with the parties concerned. Presumably your meeting in that bar wasn't recorded.
What impression did that meeting leave on the independence of the CRTC? The meeting was made public, and we can talk about it publicly.
4:20 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
My answer—and I will do this in English—is that I have meetings.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Whether it is with Bell, Shaw, Rogers, or PIAC and consumer organizations, we follow the same process in all cases. This has gotten a lot of attention, but it doesn't change the circumstances [Technical difficulty—Editor] discuss matters that are in front of the commission with anyone at a meeting. We hold meetings and, as you have said yourself, we follow the rules. They're reported in my agenda, the parties report them, and we follow the rules.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Mr. Scott, I'm not sure that the meeting was necessarily scheduled in your agenda. I want to remind you that the impression that a meeting like that produces reflects very badly on you and your organization.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Généreux. That was more a comment than a question. That concludes your time.
Ms. Lapointe, you have the floor for five minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Scott, thank you for your time with us today.
Last June this committee tabled a report titled “Affordability and Accessibility of Telecommunication Services”—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
A point of order, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Never mind, Mr. Chair. I can hear Ms. Lapointe now.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Last June this committee tabled a report. It was titled, “Affordability and Accessibility of Telecommunication Services in Canada, Encouraging Competition to (Finally) Bridge the Digital Divide”.
The committee noted:
...there is still a major digital divide between urban areas and rural and remote regions. The COVID-19 pandemic has demonstrated the need to get all Canadians connected as quickly as possible no matter where they live.
Since this report of last year, can you update us on some of the steps the CRTC is taking to help improve connectivity for those in rural, northern and indigenous communities?
4:25 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
As I mentioned in my opening remarks.... Let me just take a step back and say that I completely agree with the committee's recommendation and statement. I quickly tried to point out where we are right now, which is a little more than half, if you will.... About 90% of those in urban areas have 50/10 service available to them, but it's around 50% in the case of those in rural areas. Sadly, it's less in indigenous communities.
What are we doing about it?
We initiated our broadband fund and we have been assessing applications and awarding project funding as rapidly as we can. We work together to the extent we can as an arm's-length agency with federal and provincial governments to make sure that taxpayer dollars are being deployed efficiently. Obviously, the federal, provincial and territorial governments have now committed a much larger amount of funding to try to build those things out.
Progress is being made. I think it was about 44% 18 months ago in rural areas. We don't have the most recent numbers, but it looks like it's greater than 50%. That's not a great result, but it is happening and it does take time.
The reason those rural communities are less well served is that fibre typically doesn't reach them. Fibre is being deployed in a lot of cases, as well as new technologies such as low-orbit satellites. All of these things are happening, and they're not happening fast enough, I acknowledge, for those who live in those areas with an insufficient level of service. Directionally, it's going to the right place, and we're doing what we can with our fund.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
During the study last year, Daniel Goldberg, the president and CEO of Telesat Canada, told the committee about Telesat's activities in the context of broadband access in rural and remote regions. He noted that the current satellites are too deep in space to provide high capacity, low-latency service and that Telesat had some plans to develop a network of low-earth orbit satellites—I think the term is “LEOs”—to increase its satellite-based Internet capacity. This would give users access to broadband services equivalent to fibre, as you were just speaking to, as well as wireless LTE and 5G services.
Mr. Goldberg said that he expected construction of these satellites to begin in early 2021 and the system to be ready for beta testing in 2023.
Can you tell us if the CRTC has seen evidence of this project developing and how a successful deployment of LEOs could change access for northern and rural communities?
4:30 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
We track all technical developments as best we can. We have been watching with great interest the announcements that have been made publicly about Telesat's progress as they improve various network components, and so on. We've also been watching the deployment of Starlink, SpaceX's service; and there is another one, called OneWeb. We are monitoring all of these as they do represent a potential source of similar connectivity and latency as to fibre and might become a tremendous solution for very remote and northern areas, absolutely.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you very much, Madame Lapointe and Mr. Scott.
We now move to Mr. Sébastien Lemire.
You have the floor for two and a half minutes.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Mr. Chair, there was a change. I'm the one who'll speak for this round of questions.