Industry Committee on Nov. 21st, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning to one and all. It's a pleasure to see you again. I would have preferred that we wait until Thursday, but by necessity, we meet again today.

Welcome to meeting number 97 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology. Today's meeting is being held in hybrid format, in accordance with the Standing Orders.

We're meeting today pursuant to Standing Order 106(4) to discuss a request to address employment concerns at the new Stellantis-LG battery manufacturing facility in Windsor, Ontario.

We'll now begin by opening the floor to discussion on this request to meet, and I recognize Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, committee members, for responding and coming today. I know that some would probably like to be in the chamber right now, but there we go.

For those who are watching us right now, and not the Minister of Finance , perhaps I could start by explaining what we're doing here. It is that we—a number of the opposition members—moved a motion or sent a letter requesting that we have a special meeting to discuss the media reports, which came out late last week, that up to 1,600 jobs at Stellantis, the new EV plant in Windsor, would be filled by residents of South Korea.

I know that some claim that this is not the case, but for some strange reason, the ambassador from South Korea actually thinks it's the case, since the ambassador for South Korea held a number of meetings in Windsor with Windsor officials, saying that they needed to find accommodations in Windsor for 1,600 people from South Korea who are coming to work at the battery plant.

Obviously, this is a great concern. It's a great concern because I go back to the original announcement of the EV battery plant for Stellantis in Windsor. I believe it was back in March. The first one was before President Biden brought out the IRA. It was an agreement from, I believe, the federal government to pay about half a billion dollars of the construction costs of this new plant, under the strategic investment fund, the SIF program of ISED. At that time, the Minister of Industry said that this was great news for Canadian jobs.

Subsequent to that, when the IRA came in from President Biden, the government signed another contract with Volkswagen, as we all know, in southwestern Ontario. This was a contract of $778 million in federal government subsidy to subsidize the building of that plant, and another $15 billion of subsidy for the battery assembly—not manufacturing. These are assembly plants.

Just so people are clear, these are assembly plants that right now are not manufacturing batteries but are actually assembling batteries for EVs. Right now in the world, 80% of the parts for EV batteries are manufactured in China. These parts will be coming over to Canada and will be put into this plant to be assembled into batteries, which would then go, in most cases, into the U.S., where the cars will be assembled.

Contrary to assertions that the minister made today and that others have made, the Conservatives actually have not said whether we support or don't support these, because we haven't seen the contracts. It's hard to make a judgment on whether or not we have a good deal when you haven't seen the contracts, particularly contracts that require $15 billion in taxpayer subsidies.

In essence, what we have is a secret contract that has some sort of job commitments in it, but clearly not job commitments that require Canadians to be hired, since the ambassador from Korea is saying that they're going to bring in 1,600 people from South Korea to assemble the batteries—primarily manufactured in China and assembled here—to go to the U.S. to be assembled in vehicles that will be put together in the U.S., with presumably most of them sold in the U.S.

In the absence of having the details of that contract, it's impossible for taxpayers to understand whether or not there is a contract that compels Stellantis and their subsidiary, now in Windsor, to actually hire Canadians. One would think that if you're going to give that level of subsidy, you would actually put into the contract that the job commitments are for Canadian jobs.

We are here now to discuss doing an urgent meeting, or several meetings, as I think we need, to get to the bottom of this issue of why a contract was signed that allows a Korean car company to bring in workers from South Korea, as the ambassador from South Korea has said publicly they will do, rather than hiring Canadians

With that, Mr. Chair, just to frame the discussion, I'd like to move a study motion, if I could. I believe the clerk has a copy of it, and I'll read the motion:

Given that the Government of Canada gave a multi-billion dollar subsidy for an EV battery manufacturing facility in Windsor, Ontario, and that in recent days it has been revealed that as many as 1600 jobs will be going to foreign workers instead of Canadian workers, the committee undertake a 6 meeting investigation to determine how the Government of Canada structured a deal that prioritizes foreign workers over Canadian jobs and paycheques, and that the committee hears testimony from: the Minister of Industry, for 2 hours, the Minister of Finance, for 2 hours,

—who has obviously been very vocal on this—

the Minister of Employment and Social Development Canada, the Mayor of Windsor, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Officials from the Department of Industry, the CEO of NextStar, Danis Lee, Unifor national president Lana Payne and all other witnesses deemed relevant by the committee, and the committee order the full unredacted contract with Stellantis—LG regarding NextStar EV battery manufacturing facility in Windsor, Ontario, all documents related to government funding and Canadian job creation at the proposed factory, the Labour Market Impact Assessment application from Stellantis and the government’s response, and that these documents be produced within seven days of this motion being adopted.

For the purpose of framing the debate—and I'm sure there will be some discussion from various parties on elements of that—we are putting it on the table as a starting point, as we always do in this committee, as a collegial committee, to discuss how we can go about discussing this urgent thing. I don't think it can wait until the new year or after we are done Bill C-27, which won't be until the new year, because this issue is happening now.

There are 130 people, according to the public reports, now working on this project. The company itself and Minister Wilkinson, in fact, have said that 100 of the people who are already working on this project are from South Korea. Most of the employees to date are not South Koreans who are residents of Canada; they are South Koreans who have come here from South Korea as the starting point of this 1,600-person hiring that the ambassador of South Korea says that Stellantis is doing.

I know there's a speaking list. I'll leave it at that for now, Mr. Chair, and turn it over to others who want to make an intervention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Perkins.

We have a motion on the floor.

I recognize MP Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I offer my apologies. I'm a few blocks away. I have a cold, so I don't want to come into the same room as everybody else.

I support this motion, with some amendments, and I'll get to my amendments later. Just to scope it a little bit better with regard to where we need to get to, one of the most important things to recognize here is that I do support the investment that's taking place just outside of my riding of Windsor West.

I came to this place back in the year of 2002, trying to get a green auto strategy done. Actually, in 2004, we tabled a plan with Dr. David Suzuki and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

MP Masse, just one second. Your sound has faded. I don't think it's on your end, MP Masse.

Okay; now it seems to be working. You're back.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'm sure it was more pleasurable when you couldn't hear me, but at any rate I will resume with saying that basically I came to this place in 2002, and one of the reasons was for a green auto strategy. There were many jobs lost in Windsor, in Ontario, and Canada was number two in the world in automotive manufacturing. We've now slipped to eighth.

I support this project going forward, but there have been lots of concerns raised, not only with this one but also with the Volkswagen one. My concern resides on the transparency and accountability file of this.

This came about in the renegotiations. The most recent one was related to the Inflation Reduction Act in the United States. For me, this is critical in terms of having the opportunity to make sure that we're going to have most of the jobs here.

The story's changed even in the last number of hours. It was originally one position that was talked about. Now there are hundreds. There's a lack of supports in the community that are very important for the number of workers who are supposed to be brought in. That hasn't even really been discussed very much at this point.

What I would like to do is amend the motion by deleting.... I don't believe we need to hear from, at this point in time, Unifor national president Lana Payne. I would rather have Canada's Buildings Trades Unions' Sean Strickland present instead.

We should invite the Minister of Immigration, the Minister of Trade, and the ambassador of Korea, because, as was noted by Mr. Perkins, he came down to Windsor. Either the ambassador had intentions or.... We don't know what was taking place, but the Windsor police tweeted out that they expected potentially 1,600 people to be coming in. I don't think the ambassador of Korea actually comes to Windsor to vacation. He was here for a particular reason, and we'd like to have that testimony in front of us. We also believe that would be important.

As well, I don't believe we need the mayor of Windsor at this point in time. This is a very important federal contract. Perhaps in the future the province might be invited as well. That's a possibility.

I'll conclude my comments right now so we can move on with this.

I think that shedding light is very important for a national auto policy, a policy I've advocated for many years. I believe that Canadians do want to see us transition and be part of those things that are necessary for our future, and the best way to do that is to have transparency for people. That will build the public confidence that's necessary.

The plant has already had a little bit of an issue. There was a stalling to actually renegotiate. The government's had two negotiation points that have taken place, and I think it's reasonable to get the answers that are necessary right now and to ensure that every single possibility is covered.

It's important to note that when we have foreign labour come in for, say, the agricultural sector, the company pays for that foreign labour—it's not paid or subsidized by Canadian taxpayers. This is why I think people are a little bit concerned with what's taking place. More importantly, it was never talked about.

Whenever we have the announcements, the ribbon cuttings, a number of times there have been lots of political people who have taken credit, but it's really the workers who have actually saved our auto industry—by our quality, with Unifor, and our commitment—and the Unifor negotiations that have actually created the opportunities for investment. That's really where things are.

The fact is that the government's response to the Inflation Reduction Act of the United States has been merely to match that, but without the transparency that they provide in the United States. The United States has a much more transparent process for that, and so we need to keep that in mind, because it's important about this plant. It's not only the work that's being done to build it, but also the workers later on who will be in there, and to have the full confidence of the Canadian public.

I thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak. I hope we can actually improve this situation right now, because it is worthwhile.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Before I yield the floor to other MPs, you have moved an amendment, Mr. Masse, to the motion.

Would you mind repeating, maybe with a little more clarity, the precise terms of your amendment? That's because now the committee will have to debate your specific amendment.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for just throwing that out there.

We would strike out “The Mayor of Windsor” from the motion. It's in the middle, about six lines down. We would take out “Unifor national president, Lana Payne”, and what we would substitute in for those two witnesses would be “Canada's Building Trades Unions' Sean Strickland”, because right now it's more about the building.

We'd invite the Minister of Immigration and the Minister of Trade, because they did a press conference and raised some of the issues that I think will be important to the committee, and also the ambassador of South Korea would be added as well.

That's one of the reasons we don't need the mayor, as the ambassador of South Korea would be added. Really that's the important thrust of what took place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Masse.

Everyone has heard the amendment proposed by MP Masse, which we will now—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, could you just repeat or have repeated the first name that was mentioned among the people to be added?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

[Inaudible—Editor] just the first name?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That was Sean. It's Sean Strickland. He is the director of Canada’s Building Trades Unions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Masse.

An amendment has been moved. Keep that in mind, colleagues, as we proceed.

On my list, I had MP Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I would like to defer and go to the main motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

We need to debate the amendment first. I'll keep your name for when we come back to the main motion.

Does anyone want to speak to the amendment proposed by MP Masse?

I see Mr. Vis and then Mr. Perkins.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'll just say that I think Mr. Masse's suggestions are pretty reasonable and in line with what our motion is seeking to achieve. Rick, I think, agrees, and we would generally be supportive of that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Things have moved quickly, like they always have on these things. From when I wrote the motion the other day, this is a good update to what we now know. I would support this as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Seeing no more comments on the amendment, should I call a vote, or do we have consensus for the amendment?

I'm reading the room. I will put it to a vote, just to be sure.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I apologize, colleagues. I didn't read the room, but we have consensus. That's good.

We're back to the main motion as amended by Mr. Masse.

I will now yield the floor to MP Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I would like to yield the floor to Parliamentary Secretary Kusmierczyk, if he's next on the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

In that case, I had Sébastien Lemire, and Irek was next.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have no trouble hearing what is being said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Irek, you have the floor.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I felt compelled to come here and provide a bit of important context to the discussion we're having today.

The Stellantis battery plant is located in my riding. It is located, in fact, steps away from my home. I get a chance every single day to see this incredible battery plant rising from the ground. It represents tremendous hope for our community.

Eight years ago, our community had 11.2% unemployment. This was under the Conservative government. This was when the leader of the current Conservative opposition was the minister of employment. We had 11.2% in my community. Unemployment for young people was in the high 20%. Young people were leaving our community because they had no hope. There were no jobs. We had families leaving for Alberta because there were no jobs. We had stores that were shuttered and businesses that were closed. Those were dark times, Mr. Chair.

This is the most important investment in the history of my community. This is a future for my community. This is hope for my community. It is important that when we speak about it, we speak in facts, not politics or games—facts. There is so much riding on this battery plant.

Let me provide you with some facts.

There are 900 workers building the battery plant as we speak, representing all the trades: LiUNA, millwrights, operators, sheet metal workers—you name it. They're all Canadian, and the vast majority are from Windsor. There will be two and a half thousand Canadian workers in total building that plant. When the plant is operational, there will be two and a half thousand workers building two million batteries every year. Those two and a half thousand workers will be local. They will be Canadian. That was confirmed when I spoke this morning with the president of Unifor Local 444, Dave Cassidy. He confirmed there will be two and a half thousand workers, and that they will be local and Canadian.

Yes, there will be Korean workers coming to Canada to help with the installation of the equipment. Anyone who has ever set foot in a factory or has been part of a manufacturing town like mine will realize very quickly that this is normal. When a Canadian company like CenterLine, for example, or Valiant from Windsor, sells a product or machine to Alabama, you have Canadian workers travelling there to help with the installation of the equipment, especially because some of that equipment is proprietary, and especially during the warranty period. It's just something that happens in manufacturing.

At the same time, we know some Korean workers will move to Windsor, because they will be working with Canadian and local workers building the batteries. Why? It's because this is a new industry. This is a brand new industry we are trying to build from scratch. This is the first battery plant in Canada. We don't have the full expertise. That's why we will rely on a partnership with our Korean partners, who have been building batteries for 30 years. LG is the world leader in batteries. They have 24,000 patents on the construction of batteries. We will need them because we will be competing with every other battery manufacturer in the world. We have to get this right, because everything is riding on it.

The two and a half thousand workers building batteries will be Canadian and local.

I understand that the EV sector is a threat to the Conservatives. I understand that. It's because they don't believe in climate change. It's also because the EV battery plant would demonstrate that having an environmental plan means being successful economically. More specifically, it means jobs for communities like mine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, wait one second. I have a point of order from Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Perkins, go ahead.