Industry Committee on Nov. 21st, 2023

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Has that member been substituted in to be at the committee? If not, he has no right to talk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I have just consulted with the clerk, and there is no need for a substitute. Any MP can come to the committee and speak to the issues addressed. He's been recognized by the chair. I've just confirmed with the clerk that this is the case.

I'll let MP Kusmierczyk proceed.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I want to say again that I understand that the success of the EV battery plant is a direct threat to the Conservatives because it will demonstrate that when you have an environmental plan, you have an economic plan and you have jobs. It's not just the battery plant in Windsor in partnership with our Korean partners; in Quebec, there is Northvolt, which is a Swedish company that has committed $7 billion to build a battery plant in Montreal, in Quebec, that will provide jobs for 3,000 Quebec residents.

I imagine there will be some—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

On a point of order, would he speak to the motion? It has nothing to do with the Quebec plant. It's only about Stellantis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Perkins, I believe it is pertinent to the motion. I have always been very liberal in my interpretation. I've heard members speak on various motions. They have a certain liberty. To me it speaks to the motion at hand, so I will let Mr. Kusmierczyk proceed.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

The LG battery plant that we will build with our Korean partners is the beginning. You have the Northvolt battery plant in Montreal, Quebec, a $7-billion investment that will provide 3,000 jobs for Quebeckers. That's fantastic. I guarantee you that there will be folks from Sweden who will come to Montreal and who will help Montreal and help Quebec be successful in building batteries.

With Volkswagen, there will be another $10-billion investment in St. Thomas, and 5,000 workers. I am almost certain there will be some Germans who will come to St. Thomas. They will be welcomed by that wonderful community, that warm community. They will help St. Thomas revitalize its manufacturing and auto industry and help build batteries for the North American market.

Mr. Chair, investments worth $30 billion have taken place in the last couple of years. Canada is the number three country in the world for foreign direct investment. We are partnering with the world to build electric vehicles and batteries in this country. Canada is leading the transition to zero-emission vehicles. It burns the Conservatives' butts to hear that.

Mr. Chair, I want us to speak in facts. I want us to put the politics aside and to put the games aside, because there is far too much on the line for manufacturing communities like mine that have suffered and struggled for far too long. This battery plant is our future. It is my community's future. It is our great hope. It will be the future that is built by Canadian workers, by Windsor workers.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Kusmierczyk.

Mr. Lemire, you now have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to keep the debate flowing, but I saw that the other member from Windsor wanted to respond very spontaneously. I'm really curious to hear what he has to say, before I propose anything.

Is it possible to give him the floor?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Unfortunately, Mr. Lemire, there's a long list of people who want to speak. So I can't simply yield the floor according to everyone's wishes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's fine.

In that case, I'll ask you to move on to the next speaker. I'll take the floor again later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Do you want me to add your name to the end of the list?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yes, please, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Vis, you have the floor.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're going to have a conversation about facts.

It was in 2008 that Stephen Harper saved the auto industry in southern Ontario, Mr. Kusmierczyk. I hope you will stay and listen to what we want to say, or are you just going to make a political statement and walk out? I guess your butt is too burnt to sit here and listen. That's a fact. You're not willing to sit and listen after you just went off on that partisan speech.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I have a point of order from MP Lapointe.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I believe that members need to address their comments through the Chair. I would also ask that we use parliamentary language.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe. I just used the exact same phrase as the member.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Vis, please, a point of order was raised. I'm considering it. I've been flexible on how members address each other, but given the heated nature of this debate that we're having today, I'd rather have members address their comments through the Chair.

Go ahead, Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do respect you and I will put my comments through you.

As you have just witnessed, Mr. Chair, Mr. Kusmierczyk came in here to make a political statement about burning the butts of Conservatives and this plant being a direct threat. After he made his political statement, he walked out of the room, because I guess he really doesn't care about the—

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Go ahead, MP Van Bynen.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

It's not appropriate to identify who is in the room and who is not in the room. Is that not a parliamentary understanding?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I don't believe it is in committee; however, I will ask Mr. Vis to try to stay above....

You know what my mother used to say? Weak people judge persons; strong people judge ideas. I would suggest, Mr. Vis, that you continue on the ideas, because I know you're bigger than that. Let's keep the personal out of it.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

We will speak to the facts, Mr. Chair. In 2008, it was Stephen Harper who built out the auto industry. It was the Business Development Bank of Canada that bought all leases from GMAC, the General Motors financing authority. I'm not going to take any lessons from the government-side members on the role of the auto industry and the threats perceived by the member who left the room regarding what is a significant contract.

You know, Mr. Chair, we all came together last spring, despite every attempt by the government to avoid transparency. On the Volkswagen contract, they eventually relented, and we were able to see the contract.

Now, unless Mr. Kusmierczyk has special access to government contracts that are deemed sensitive and secret in nature, I can't take his word for anything he said, because I have to assume, like any other member of Parliament who is not a member of cabinet, that they have not reviewed the contract, and the statements he made regarding employment and the nature of that employment, whether it's Canadian or Korean, cannot be verified. All we can go on is publicly made statements. That's what Mr. Kusmierczyk was stating: public statements. Right now, Mr. Chair, frankly, it's very hard to keep track of what all the public statements were.

I have lots of questions about this contract, just like I had about the Volkswagen contract. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that it was Stellantis that originally received a subsidy from the federal government, much smaller than the subsidy they have before it right now. Many people made the argument that if we went forward with the Volkswagen contract to align with the policies put forward by President Biden in the United States, we would see a slippery slope of all major investments in the auto industry and other sectors asking for the exact same terms and conditions. Well, lo and behold, a few weeks after we were here, Stellantis halted the construction of that plant. They said that unless the Government of Canada ponied up and gave them billions upon billions upon billions of dollars more, they were going to pull this investment from the good people of Windsor.

You know what, Mr. Chair? We didn't hear a peep out of Mr. Kusmierczyk when that was happening. It's really unfortunate that he wasn't standing up for his constituents when they needed him. Now we're in an untenable situation in which every big company that wants to build a battery plant in Canada using Chinese minerals wants billions upon billions of dollars from the federal government.

I want to know. I want to see the contract and understand what subsidies Stellantis is getting, because that's not a public fact right now.

What grants has Stellantis‑LG already received? What grants will Stellantis‑LG receive from the Government of Canada?

In the contract between Stellantis‑LG and the minister, did the federal government agree on a provision that allowed Stellantis‑LG to hire Korean workers instead of Canadian workers?

Yes, indeed, South Korea has a free trade agreement and the labour mobility clause with the Government of Canada, and that's a good thing.

I worked at the Department of Foreign Affairs when this contract between Canada and South Korea was signed. The intention was not for the Government of Canada to subsidize foreign workers through major auto investments or subsidies; it was to promote the exchange of people to build both of our economies up. What I'm fearful of, without seeing this contract, is that the clause in the free trade agreement with South Korea will allow for powerful paycheques for South Korean workers at the expense of Canadian taxpayers.

I don't want my taxpayer dollars going there, nor do the constituents in Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, where we don't get big investments from the federal government—unless it's a prison, by the way. I can say confidently on behalf of the people I represent that we don't want our taxpayer dollars going to foreign workers, whatever the intention.

We need to figure this out and get to the bottom of this contract.

We need to know if the subsidy provided by the government is going to be used to pay foreign workers. If so, how much of our money would be given to each foreign worker?

We need to know if in fact the Canadian subsidy to Stellantis will fund foreign workers working on Canadian soil and are allowed by law to come into Canada under our free trade agreement. That's a fact. There are lots of things we need to get to the bottom of here.

Mr. Chair, for the member to come in and say that Conservatives need to be concerned because we don't have an environment policy, that we don't care about the people in southern Ontario or the auto industry, and that whatever the government is doing is a direct threat to my political party, I take issue with that. What is a direct threat to the people I represent is that the government not using taxpayer dollars wisely.

I will reiterate time and time again that the industry committee has a unique role in ensuring that these large subsidies do what they're intended to do and cost what the government says they're going to cost. If our recent work in this committee shows anything, it's that the government has underestimated the true cost of its subsidies to these major global auto giants.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.