Evidence of meeting #20 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Peter J. Boyle  As an Individual
Henry Hynd  As an Individual

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney

Good day.

This is a meeting of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

For the first hour, we will be hearing from witnesses—the last ones, I hope—in connection with our study of human rights in Cuba. We will then move on to other committee business. Among other things, I would like to update you on the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development's report on China.

We'll begin with our witnesses before us today, Mr. Peter Boyle from the Kingston and District Labour Council, and Mr. Hynd, former District 6 director of the United Steelworkers. They are here to present to us on the issue of human rights in Cuba.

Gentlemen, the standard practice is we have a few minutes for your verbal presentations. We try to limit that to ten minutes, and then we take rounds of questions, beginning with seven-minute rounds of questions from, I suspect in this case, Mr. Silva.

I invite Mr. Boyle to begin. Thank you for coming.

Go ahead, Mr. Boyle.

11:05 a.m.

Peter J. Boyle As an Individual

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

I just want to make some points about Cuba and unions on this topic.

I'll start out with the fact that Kingston is the only city in Canada that's twinned with a Cuban city, and that's Cienfuegos. That happened in November 2004, with an exchange of mayors and a group that went down from Kingston to Cuba to do that.

On that occasion four representatives from our labour council visited Havana and Cienfuegos in Cuba. We held discussions with local union leaders from the Cienfuegos area. Our Kingston and District Labour Council sponsored, in 2006, two labour leaders to Kingston to attend the twinning conference we co-sponsored. We had discussions in a labour forum that was held there and was well attended. Amarilis Perez Santans, secretary general of the CTC in Cienfuegos province, attended, as did the president of the artists' and writers' union from the city of Trinidad, which is nearby.

In February 2007 I led an exchange with 15 labour council presidents and labour representatives from around Ontario to the Cienfuegos area. We spent a week there, but three full days touring and in discussions with many union leaders and workers around the Cienfuegos area. We toured many workplaces, including an organic farm complex, sugar cane factory, cigar factory, a hospital, a centre for children with speech impediments, which we were very impressed with, with 31 students and 29 instructors for them, and met with about 40 union presidents of the sectors represented by the CTC in the Cienfuegos area.

Based on those and other trips I've taken to Cuba, I'd just like to make some points between what I've heard from the workers down there and what I've read and other things.

The push for this hearing I believe comes from Cuban Canadians, a small group who are aligned with the Cuban-American National Foundation, headquartered in Miami. Workers in Cuba are upset that the U.S. government continually tries to coax Cubans to risk their lives, by any means possible, to get to Florida, where they're given housing, money, and jobs and are held up as a symbol of the American ideals. This is interference, as Cubans are the only people in the world who can enter the U.S. without a passport. I find that information, from Cuban workers, a bit disturbing.

The second point is Cuba is a sovereign country and has a right to defend itself against any aggression. As such, it has laws to protect itself against anyone who is paid by a foreign power to assist and facilitate the overthrow of the Cuban government. The so-called dissidents that we've heard about were paid agents and were tried and found guilty in the Cuban court of law.

The third point is a number of points on unions that I've learned from talking to workers down there. The union structure in Cuba is similar to the one in Canada, with the CTC uniting all unions, much like the Canadian Labour Congress here. The Cuban union movement encompasses more than 98% of Cuban workers through 19 national unions. Workers are not compelled to join a union; however, most choose to do so.

The unions are autonomous, the requirements are prescribed by law, and they are completely self-financed through monthly dues. These union dues are voluntary. Each union will hold their own congress, and the CTC organizes a national congress every five years.

I think there are 15 labour leaders from different provinces in Cuba who are elected and serve in a congress in Havana. One of the people I've dealt with, who I mentioned earlier, Amarilis, who was the general secretary of the CTC in Cienfuegos, was elected to that position in Havana last September and is now in Havana.

Thus, while the unions work closely with the government, unions are independent. Indeed, unions exercise considerable influence in the National Assembly, their Parliament, where there is a significant representation from unions and working people.

The functions of the unions in Cuba are twofold: to further the economic, political, and social interests of the country as a whole and to protect the rights and advance the standards of living of the Cuban workers.

The government must consult the unions on all matters involving labour policy. The workers conduct meetings among themselves, debate the proposals by government, and then decide whether they are amenable to the proposed changes. Among examples of that, in 1995 proposed alterations to social security were rejected by the Cuban Workers' Central, the CTC, resulting in the legislation being sent back to be reworked.

Also in 1995, a provision of the Foreign Investment Act would have allowed joint ventures with foreign investors to directly hire Cuban workers. This was abandoned in the face of opposition from the CTC.

The union also effectively challenged the 1994 proposal to tax workers' wages. Here the government wanted to start something that was similar to income tax, but the workers fought it off. They suggested the government charge small fees for cultural events, such as baseball and theatre, which they did.

By law, workers meet in their work centres twice yearly to participate in discussions on the economic plan of their company or enterprise. Workers have the option of rejecting the proposals offered by management and the administrators. Workers also determine the production norms, the rates, and the work pace.

Unions advocate for workers within a framework of a cooperative relationship with the government. Consequently, there's no antagonism between workers and government, as the government is made up of workers and others who are elected to represent the particular sectors of the Cuban society.

We can say that the simplest indication of the nature of the Cuban state is that the economic crisis of the nineties was not resolved at the expense of workers, their families, or their children. The workers told us of meetings held in every workplace and of a national day of meetings amongst workers when the special period began with the collapse of the Soviet bloc that supported their economy in the face of the U.S. embargo.

I believe unions in Cuba are independent, and the leaders I talk to take pride that this is the case. They take a lot of pride in it. The workers I have talked to on my visits to Cuba all have one common thread: they are a proud, resilient, and friendly people; they are proud that they have been able to endure hardships imposed on them and still have their own democratic government.

I note that some were not born or were very young at the time of the revolution. The economic terrorism, as I call it, that is imposed on the Cuban people by U.S. government policies is where this committee should be exerting its efforts—towards real human rights abuses.

I recommend that this committee recommend increased support for Cuba and petition the U.S. to end the economic embargo. Their policy to inflict pain on the Cuban people is intolerable.

Many thought Cuba would crumble when Fidel left power recently. Even some of the people who came on the tour with us in February were asked by family and friends, should you really go? I saw no mention or talk of any change. The workers are happy with their government, more so than our labour movement at times is with our Canadian government.

I believe many critics are part of a U.S. attempt to create unrest in Cuba in hopes that their 48 years of interference with the Cuban people will be successful. I saw or heard no such movement among the workers.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney

We'll now hear from Mr. Hynd. Please go ahead, sir.

11:15 a.m.

Henry Hynd As an Individual

My name is Henry Hynd. My wife Margaret and I went to Cuba in 1976 to Varadero. It was the beginning of tourism from Canada. There were 26 Canadians at Villa Cuba, mostly from Ontario and Montreal.

Villa Cuba was no five-star hotel. The complex of homes was formerly owned by rich Americans and Cubans. It was located on the former DuPont estate. Hot running water was in short supply and the food was of poor quality. The staff were as curious about us as we were about them. Few spoke English, and we did not speak Spanish. However, the beach was beautiful, warm, buoyant, and amazingly calm. Fish swam around us, and beautiful shells were left on the shoreline. It was like paradise.

We have a photo that was taken on the beach. In both directions along the shoreline, there is nobody in the picture. We were the only people on the beach, 17 kilometres long.

We visited Matanzas, Havana, and the town of Varadero. We found them interesting and inviting.

We have gone to Cuba every year since our first trip. We returned to Villa Cuba many times. We now stay at Villa Morelos, which is next door to Villa Cuba.

But our reasons for visiting Cuba are not only to lay on the beach and swim in the ocean. We have developed lasting friendships with several families in Cuba who live in Santa Marta, Cardenas, and Caibarien. We have visited Cuba every year since 1976, mostly twice a year. We have taken our children and our grandchildren many times to Cuba. It is an extremely safe place, especially for tourists.

I believe the level of education in Cuba--most Cubans are university educated--is amazing. A great many Cubans speak several languages, mostly English, German, and French, as well as their native Spanish.

In all my time in Cuba, I have never heard of any tourists being robbed, assaulted, or even harassed. Cuba is an extremely safe place.

Cubans are a handsome people, mostly fit, healthy, and helpful. They appreciate those who visit their country.

While the system of one-party rule in Cuba may be important to some Canadians, there must be an appreciation of Cuba's history of democratic elections in previous years and what corrupt governments that produced, with gambling, prostitution, live sex acts, and drugs. Those in government were extremely rich, while the mass of the population were poor and in ill health, uneducated and overworked.

Today in Cuba, people are much better off. They are well educated and healthy. Most are in good physical condition. They have decent housing. For those who become ill, doctors and medicine and hospitals are free. The Cuban people, mostly university educated, are polite, and engage with tourists.

On one of our early visits to Havana, my wife and I spotted two young boys staring at us. They were about 15 years old. I assumed they would come asking for candy, gum, or something like that. However, when they approached us, they wanted to learn some words in English. We spent some time with them. As they were leaving, I offered them some money. They declined but thanked us for spending time with them.

On a later visit to Havana, I left my car lights on; when driving from Varadero into Havana, you enter through a tunnel, requiring the turning on of your lights. I drove to a parking lot, but when I returned in the evening, the battery was dead.

My Cuban friend Rego asked a Cuban man if he could help. He responded positively. I assumed he had cables. However, I was wrong. He took the battery out of my car and replaced it with his own battery. He started my car, then reversed the procedure. I was impressed. My friend Rego thanked him. However, I wanted to pay him for his trouble. He refused. I asked Rego to convince him to take $20 U.S. The man declined, but after some haggling accepted $10. Another positive experience.

I have a third story. My wife and I were driving to Caibarien in a rental car. We were in the country. Our car died near a house. An old man came down to our car. I tried to communicate to him that I had mechanical problems. However, he did not speak any English, and I don't speak any Spanish. He just walked away.

Shortly after this, a young man appeared. He was a mechanic. He checked the car and told me that the solenoid was gone and that it would have to be replaced.

I asked if there was a telephone nearby, and he took us to a house with a phone. I called the rental company, and the young man spoke with them and said it would be at least an hour before they could arrive with our replacement car. The young man told them exactly where we were. Again I tried to give him some money, and he also declined. After some discussion, he accepted when I convinced him that he could buy a gift for his two young sons: again, in my view, another example of how generous Cubans are. As we waited for the car, the lady of the house brought us drinks of homemade lemonade. We have often stopped outside the house on our way past to wave and wish them well.

Those are a few examples of Cuban hospitality and how kind Cubans are. Cuba is a beautiful country, safe, hospitable, and drug-free. The penalty for bringing illegal drugs is harsh, as it should be. Tourists who try to enter with illegal drugs are not allowed in the country and are banned from future entry.

Cuba in many ways is a miracle, bombarded by the most powerful country in the world. Cuba's major export was sugar. Sugar is no longer a desirable product, and yet Cuba survives. The small island can still provide university education for free, and when one finishes university they work in their field for two years at reduced wages.

Canada as a country has historically helped Cuba. I don't know to what degree we still trade and assist with fishing and farming. I know that one businessman, Ian Delaney, is not only in the nickel business, he has helped Cubans fund and develop organic vegetables throughout the country. He has also expanded his business interests to cobalt, coal, and real estate. He describes Cuba as a terrific place to do business.

I describe Cuba as a great place to visit, and I know that Canadians will continue to visit Cuba. I hope that Canada will continue to work with Cuba to help Cuba in mutual ventures. My wife Margaret and I carry medicines to doctors and local hospitals when we visit Cuba. We are supporters of Not Just Tourists in Toronto.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hynd.

Who from the official opposition would like to begin? Mr. Silva? Seven minutes, Mr. Silva.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you very much for your presentation.

I want to hear from either one of you or both of you on the whole issue of whether Cuba is complying with international treaties of civil and political rights, specifically when it deals with issues of freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, the right to choose your own government, and other civil and political rights, which are very fundamental principles.

11:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Peter J. Boyle

The comment I have to make on that is that in talking to the workers and forwarding issues up from the workplace around issues in Cuba, the workers themselves feel pretty empowered. That's the impression I get from them: they feel fairly empowered.

When I look at it, I look at it in the sense of in Canada the unions protest against government decisions--we come to Parliament Hill, we try to influence governments on labour laws and other different things--whereas down there protest is more “pro” than “test”. They feel that the government is something they own, and it's working for them. It's similar to what we are in Canada. Workers don't agree with everything the government does, and neither do workers there, but they have a system, I found from them, that they work within for change.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Hynd, did you want to comment or no?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Henry Hynd

I thought I addressed that in my opening remarks. I spoke about Cuba's history with elected governments, and their history, as opposed to ours, is much different. It led to the life in Cuba being more harsh, more corruption, more drugs, more sex, more tourists for sex, and Cuba wasn't the same kind of country as it is today. It's a much better place to live today, and Cubans know that.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you for those comments.

There have been several incidents of arrests of dissidents. One of them that has been reported was in 2003, where 75 dissidents, predominantly independent journalists, human rights defenders, and even labour union people, were arrested by the government of Castro. Both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International—which I don't believe are puppets of the U.S.—have also condemned these arrests and shown that in fact they are very repressive measures by the government.

How do you see these arrests? Do you see them as in fact that they are living to the obligations of these important fundamental human rights treaties that we all participate in for civil and political rights?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Henry Hynd

I don't know of that set of circumstances. I don't know what they did, I have no idea, so I can't really make a comment on it.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Boyle?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Henry Hynd

It won't be the first time that innocent people have been charged by governments in many places throughout the world.

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Peter J. Boyle

The only comment I'll make is that in 2004 I was on a Governor General's leadership conference in the Northwest Territories, and a group of 14 of us met with lots of aboriginal and first nations leaders in the Northwest Territories who have a lot of complaints. As a matter of fact, they didn't even want to. There were a couple of government people with us, one from the military and one from a parliamentary secretary, who they were quite suspicious of.

When I look in retrospect at what happened then and what we heard from aboriginal leaders in the Northwest Territories—and we did talk to lots of them—one could make the same point that there's a history of oppression and everything else against the first nations and aboriginal people up north. I don't know of the specific incident you talked about, but I align it with those particular types of views.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

You're willing to quite easily admit that there are human rights violations in Canada. Are you not prepared to even mention one human rights violation in Cuba?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Peter J. Boyle

I didn't admit there were any; I said I align them as being similar. And they're your words, asking me if there were human rights violations. I don't think there are in Canada. I don't know, there probably are somewhere. However—

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney

The subject here is Cuba, not Canada.

11:25 a.m.

A voice

Well, that was the question.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

I just wanted to know, because he was prepared to talk about human rights in Canada, and I just wanted to know if there were any in Cuba that he was prepared to in fact—

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney

No, but he was still talking about Canada. I'm sorry, carry on. It's your time.

Will you answer his question, then, please, Mr. Boyle?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Peter J. Boyle

Will you repeat it, please?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

You alluded to the issue of Canada, and I thought what I was interpreting from you was that you are prepared to speak about human rights concerns you have in Canada, but I have yet to hear of any human rights concerns you have in Cuba. So I'm wondering, are there are human rights concerns you might have that you would like to speak to at this committee?

11:25 a.m.

As an Individual

Peter J. Boyle

There are no human rights concerns that I have from talking to workers and meeting with workers both in Cuba and workers that have come to Canada. The analogy I used was just to set the stage for that.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you. No more questions.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. St-Hilaire.