Evidence of meeting #20 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I would just like to say that if one compares Haiti with Cuba, it's night and day. Canada is trying to help Haiti, and I'm glad they are. I haven't been in Haiti; I've read a lot about it.
I've been in Mexico several times. I was robbed in a hotel lobby by five bandits with guns. While I was there, a newspaper story described how the wife of an army officer had been accused of stealing merchandise at a store and had been arrested by the police and taken to their jail. The army attacked the jail, and they had a big shootout among the Mexican police and the Mexican army.
I think there are abuses that we can look at all over the world, and I don't know that Cuba is abuse-free. I don't know that, but all my experiences have been good--very good. As I say, I've always felt totally safe in Cuba.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Great. Thank you.
We've had testimony here as well that there's a two-tiered health system, and if you're a guest of the country you'll get far better health care than the average Cuban would. Have you seen any evidence of that?
Mr. Boyle, have you ever attended an open public union meeting?
Finally, on the engagement Canada has with Cuba, do you see that as being constructive? Is it something we should continue or discontinue?
As an Individual
On the first question, about medicine, in 2004 when we went down, one of the 25 people had a cut and went to the hospital and got it fixed up.
I've been to medical centres, hospitals, and some community-style health centres. One was for pregnant women with high-risk pregnancies. They bring them in from around the countryside so they're looked after.
Although some of the centres don't have the equipment you would find in a medical centre today, they do quite well with what they have. As Harry mentioned and I've seen, the people there are very healthy and don't seem to be suffering from a lack of health. The latest numbers we got from the union showed there was one doctor for every 168 people in Cuba. That's pretty impressive. I wish we had it here in Canada.
On the issue of union meetings, there was a centre of innovation in Cienfuegos where the sugar cane workers and tourism workers waited for us for a couple of hours because our bus was late getting there. We engaged in discussions with them for about an hour. Then out came the beer and we sat around and talked with the workers. None of these issues came up with any of the workers I talked to, and I've been down there a number of times since 2000. I think that pretty well answers it.
As an Individual
My experience in Cuba has been different from Peter's. The only workers I really engaged with were people in the hospitality industry--people in the hotels and people who drive taxis. So I don't really have a great deal of experience in meeting with people who are attached to the union. I've met people in Canada from Cuba who were active in the union there.
My whole experience is one of being a Canadian and being a visitor to Cuba, hoping that Canada will continue to support Cuba financially with any aid we can give them and work cooperatively with them. I spoke in my opening remarks about Ian Delaney. He is a businessman in Canada with extensive businesses in Cuba, and speaks highly of the relationships he has there with the workers and the government.
I think it's very important that Canada continue to support Cuba, work with Cuba, and try to engage in trade with Cuba. There are some mutually beneficial trading issues.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
You both spoke at length about your trips to Cuba. Have either of you ever visited a Cuban prison where there were political prisoners? Have either of you ever spoken to people who have spent time in Cuban jails as a consequence of political activities?
As an Individual
Let me just respond to that.
I've visited many countries and I've never spoken to any prisoners. I've never gone to a prison to speak to prisoners. Even in Canada I haven't done that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Are either of you familiar with the Varela project in Cuba? It is a project on the part of civil society to collect signatures to demand electoral reform and a real choice in elections.
You haven't heard about that.
Have either of you read any reports from organizations like Freedom House, Human Rights First, Human Rights Watch, or Amnesty International about the human rights situation in Cuba?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Mr. Boyle, I think you testified that those so-called dissidents were “paid agents”. Is that what you said? And they were convicted as such.
As an Individual
My exact words were that in my opinion, Cuban Canadians...a small group who are aligned with the Cuban-American National Foundation, headquartered in Miami.... Sorry, it was the point I made about Cuba being a sovereign country. I said:
It has laws to protect itself against anyone who is paid by a foreign power to assist and facilitate the overthrow of the Cuban government. The so-called dissidents were paid agents and tried and found guilty by the Cuban court of law.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
So you take at face value the convictions of dissidents by the Cuban court system as legitimate convictions against paid agents--i.e., spies. Do you accept that on face value?
As an Individual
I've talked to the workers down there and this is what they've told me.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
You're putting that in your own words. Okay.
So the fact that virtually every major international human rights organization and the United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in Cuba, Madam Christine Chanet, have all found that there are systemic and repeated violations of basic civil and political rights is of no concern to you?
As an Individual
I think I made the analogy earlier that you can look at any country in the world, including Canada, and get the same types of responses.