But you would agree with me that from the point of view of taking means and ways—and certainly there are lots, and you and I and others have participated in several—in which we attempt to denounce and demonstrate and pronounce against and show our rejection of any expression of hatred in a number of circumstances that have neither invoked the actions of the Human Rights Tribunal nor invoked the responses of the Criminal Code.... So you're obviously right in that regard. But it seems to me that the risk we end up running, in what you're doing by advocating simply eliminating section 13 rather than revising and amending it, which is the alternative path that's been set out, I think, by a number of people—including an alternative presented by Professor Moon in a very even-handed way, as he looks at presenting his options—is that we lose the benefit of having, as we all agree, a more tightly focused section 13, but one that nevertheless still gives certain powers to the Human Rights Tribunal to do its job. That's where I think the difference of opinion will be on the committee and where I think it will be in Parliament.
If we lose that, we end up with an open field, effectively, and the Criminal Code in place, and the Criminal Code is a very tough route to follow in these circumstances. I think the history of the trials and the cases with regard to the Criminal Code will show that I'm right in that regard.