Evidence of meeting #16 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was venezuela.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Guadalupe Marengo  Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

I am going to call us into session right now. Those of you who are not near the table, Monsieur Dorion and Mr. Sweet, can listen up, because we're waiting for our witness. I don't want to eat into her time, but I want to address a couple of issues.

This is the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. This is our 16th meeting.

We'll be talking about the Venezuela hearings, and we have a guest who will be joining us by video conference shortly. However, we also have some items relating to committee business and committee budgeting that I need to deal with, and I would like to do this before our witness is available. Otherwise, I'll have to kick her out early in order to deal with these things. I thought perhaps we could do them in advance.

We are going in camera temporarily.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right. I'm just going to ask our witness, Guadalupe Marengo, can you hear us?

1:10 p.m.

Guadalupe Marengo Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Yes, I can. Can you hear me?

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Yes, we can. Perfect. Thank you so much.

I apologize for the late start. We had a couple of technical difficulties here in Ottawa.

We're very glad you could attend. I think what we ought to do is go directly into your presentation, and when you're finished we will then allow questions from each of the four parties who are present here with us.

1:10 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me.

I'll try to be as brief as possible. I've got ten minutes, I've been told, to present to you the concerns of Amnesty International, in particular on the case of Venezuela.

I work in the Americas program here at the secretariat and I'm one of the program directors. If I can be brief on what Amnesty's concerns are with Venezuela, one of the main concerns we have is the issue of impunity. This has been a problem we've had in Venezuela for the past decades, including with this administration.

Human rights violations that are committed by the security forces are not thoroughly investigated and usually no one is brought to justice. This was the case 20 years ago and it's the case now. The office of the attorney general in 2008 admitted--transparently said--that they had received 6,000 complaints of alleged police killings between 2000 and 2007 alone. They stated that they would create a special team to investigate these alleged police killings, but so far we are two years down the line and we still don't know what has happened with those investigations.

Meanwhile, we continue to receive cases of people whose rights have been violated by the police. For example, in March in one of the states--the state of Anzoategui--three men were abducted by the police, we don't know exactly under what circumstances. Their families have put a complaint before the attorney general. No impartial investigation has happened. The men have still not been found and nobody has been brought to justice for this violation.

In another state, in the state of Aragua, we've got a campaign against a family that has been going on for about six years. In November 2003 they denounced the killing of one of their members by the police. Since then another three people in the family have been killed. The family has been continuously harassed. The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has requested protection for the family. The protection has been sporadic. It has been, as you can see, ineffective, since three other members of the family have been killed since. Again, there has not been an impartial investigation and nobody has been brought to justice, and the family lives in fear with threats.

That's on the issue of impunity, which is a concern to us. Another concern we have is the concern about clamping down on critics of the government. As you know, President Hugo Chavez's government brought in legislation in 2001, legislation to change economic and social policies. That started to create a strong polarization in the country. It resulted in a coup in 2002 in which the president was ousted for 48 hours. Since that 2002 coup the country has become increasingly polarized. The polarization has also meant that for the past years the government and the authorities have become less and less tolerant of any criticism.

The first clear sign of this intolerance was in 2007, when the decision was taken not to renew the licence of one of the television stations, Radio Caracas Televisión. That television station had a clear anti-government line, and its licence was not renewed. That was one of the first signs of the increased intolerance.

Last year 34 radio stations also had their licences revoked or withdrawn, in this case due to administrative reasons, the authorities said. But what is interesting is that all of these 34 stations had an anti-government editorial line.

The special rapporteur on freedom of expression of the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has stated that it appears the real reason for these licences being withdrawn is because these 34 radio stations in the country have got an anti-government line in their editorial. During the past eight months or so, the clamping down on critics is getting more worrying. It isn't only about not renewing TV licences or withdrawing radio station licences. An increase in how the authorities are beginning to clamp down on critics is worrying.

Last August, for example, one of the prefects of Caracas, a person from the opposition, Richard Blanco, was detained. He was in detention from last August until this April, allegedly because he had assaulted a police officer and incited violence. There is no evidence. We haven't yet seen evidence of him assaulting a police officer and inciting violence. His arrest appears to be politically motivated. He has now been released but he still faces prosecution.

Also in the last few months, a judge, Maria Lourdes Afiuni, was detained in December 2009 and remains in prison. The United Nations working group on arbitrary detention, the special rapporteurs on the independence of judiciary and human rights defenders, have asked for her immediate release. In this case, the judge was detained immediately after President Hugo Chavez announced in his weekly television and radio program that she was corrupt for having ruled that a banker should be released on bail. This banker later fled the country. But it clearly appears she was detained only because the president said she was corrupt for having ruled on that matter. As I said, UN working groups and special rapporteurs have asked for her immediate and unconditional release. She is still in prison as we speak.

Also in the past few months, March appears to have been a difficult month because of clamping down on dissidents, of people against the authorities or who criticized them. The head of the Globovisión, another television channel known for its anti-government line, was arrested for a few days and still faces prosecution because of having talked to the Inter-American Press Association, criticizing Chavez at that time. He was detained for a few days but still faces prosecution.

Another person also arrested in March was the former governor of the state of Zulia, Oswaldo Alvarez. He was detained until recently. He was detained for about two months or so, again because he said in an interview that Venezuela was a haven for drug trafficking. It appears that's the sole reason for his having been detained. He has now been released but again still faces prosecution for that.

So the use of the criminal justice system to punish people who have an anti-government line appears to be used more and more. The Inter-American Commission has stated very recently that this shows the lack of independence of the judiciary in the country.

We're also worried and concerned about the issue of human rights defenders. Human rights defenders appear to be intimidated, harassed, and attacked as well. Only recently, in November last year, a human rights defender in the state of Lara was shot dead by unknown men. He was working for the Committee of Victims Against Impunity, and they were making a film to show documented cases of people who had allegedly suffered human rights violations in the hands of the police in that state.

Mijail Martínez was shot dead. No thorough and impartial investigation has been carried out. Nobody has been brought to justice for this crime.

Only recently, a few weeks ago, at the beginning of May, a human rights defender in Caracas, Rocío San Miguel, was uncovering stories of what she alleged were members of the military breaching the constitution by siding with the ruling party. She received death threats.

Now, the worrying thing about these threats and attacks is that on the one hand there are no investigations and nobody is brought to justice, but on the other hand, there doesn't seem to be the political will to condemn these violations by the authorities.

I just want to spend the last few minutes talking about advances, because there have been advances in the last few years in Venezuela on human rights. For example, on violence against women, President Hugo Chavez promulgated in 2007 a very progressive law on the right of women to a life free from violence. A year later, Amnesty launched a campaign to push for the implementation of this very thorough law to fight violence against women in the country.

Special police stations have been created and special offices within the attorney general's office have been created, but this hasn't been enough. The office of the attorney general has already been transparent and has said that between January and August of last year alone they received 12,000 complaints of cases of violence against women, and they haven't been able to deal with but half of those cases due to lack of resources.

So it's a positive note, but still more resources need to be put in place to combat violence against women after a very good law was promulgated in 2007.

Also, it is important to note that there have been advances on social and economic rights. If one looks at the UN Development Programme report of 2009, access to primary health care has increased since this government came to office in 1999, and it is nearly 100%. Illiteracy has been nearly eradicated. Infant mortality has decreased by more than half. That same report, the latest one, which is from 2009, also puts Venezuela in the second tier of high human development countries. There are 45 countries in the world in that tier. The first tier is the first 38, and Canada and other western and European countries belong there, but there have been advances on those economic, social, and cultural rights.

As for what the problem is, I'm just going to finish with this, and then I'll take questions, because I'm sure you'll have a few. Only recently, in February, the Inter-American Commission published a report on the human rights situation in the country. If you'll allow me, I'll just read two paragraphs from that report, and then I'll finish. It states:

...the observance of other fundamental rights cannot be sacrificed for the sake of realizing economic, social, and cultural rights. Human rights constitute an indissoluble whole, and, as the American Convention sets forth in its preamble, “the ideal of free men enjoying freedom from fear and want can be achieved only if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his [or her] economic, social, and cultural rights, as well as his [or her] civil and political rights.

The Inter-American Commission concludes that “political intolerance”, “the lack of independence” of the judiciary, the “constraints on freedom of expression”, “the existence of a climate hostile to the free exercise of dissenting political participation”, “citizen insecurity”, and, in particular, “the prevailing impunity” that goes with that, are all factors that contribute to the weakening of the rule of law in Venezuela. Therefore, in Venezuela today people do not enjoy all the human rights guaranteed by the American Convention on Human Rights.

I will stop here, because I am conscious of time, and I'll take any questions or any comments you have.

Thank you.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We have four questioners, and we'll start with Mario Silva from the Liberal Party.

Mr. Silva, we'll give you eight minutes for the question and answer, and do the same for everybody.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Madam, for your presentation.

You outlined some very salient points about what's taking place and a very complex series of actions as well, which we are trying to get some handle on as a committee.

You went on at length about the issues of rule of law and independence of the judiciary, which we know and have read about, the fact that since the 2002 coup there has been a real politicization by the government to bring forward members of both the army and the separate army that they have in place as well in Venezuela, which does the bidding of the government. So I can see why there would be some issues about investigation, particularly of those people.

But in the other part of the rule of law, which is the judiciary, they have also appointed a whole series of members, who they call revolutionary socialist judges, to the courts, particularly to the Supreme Court and so forth. And I think they have even expanded the Supreme Court to allow for those additional members.

I'm trying to figure out, when we talk about the polarization of society, how extensive is it? What are the abilities of those in the opposition, for example, to question those appointments, from the legislative perspective, from the societal perspective, and from the NGO perspective? What role do they have in terms of questioning both the rule of law there, and those judicial appointments? Is there any space at all for them to even have any type of democratic voice to express their concerns about some of these human rights violations?

1:30 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

Thank you.

It is our experience that the country is definitely very polarized. The example I gave you on the latest clamping down in the last six or seven months on dissent is actually worrying. I would say there is definitely still space to criticize, but the fact that the authorities in the past few months have begun to detain--and we have the four examples that Amnesty International has received in the past four months--sends the message that they are beginning to tolerate less and less criticism. So the rest of the population is beginning to worry as to how far they can criticize, how far they can voice their concerns or their opposition to the government. If people like the prefect that I mentioned are detained for a few months, if the judge who, on a ruling, was detained following President Chavez mentioning that he was corrupt, and a few hours later he was being detained, arrested and charged, those signals are beginning, I suggest.... The country is beginning to feel it is getting more and more difficult to express dissent.

Now, members of the Inter-American Commission have been pushing the authorities to ensure this doesn't happen, but I think more pressure needs to be put on the government at the moment for that, because up to around eight months ago a television station's licence hadn't been renewed. They have revoked the licences of television stations, but people really haven't been detained.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

We have never visited Venezuela, so all we have been getting is what we have been reading and of course hearing from the witnesses who have also been before this committee, but I want to get a clearer picture.

If the opposition media is being shut down by the government; if the government is appointing its own judges who have to be “revolutionary socialist judges” and have to be particular to the brand, the philosophy; if those are the only ones it is prepared to appoint; if it is creating a separate police force as well in the country to monitor, investigate, arrest—as they say, if necessary—and even kidnap people who are opposing the government; if it is bringing in certain laws that restrict the opposition's ability, where is the space for members of Parliament who are willing to stand up, and are there any? I realize they probably don't have much air time because all of it is covered by Chavez and his own media outlets, but where are the voices, where are the local NGOs, where are the parliamentary and political voices able to be heard throughout the country? Is that disappearing altogether?

1:30 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

I don't think we can categorically say that, because there are still plenty of television stations and newspapers that have an editorial line that is anti-government. It is true that lately there has been a bit more intimidation than there was two years ago, so we are beginning to worry as to how far this will go, but at the moment there are plenty of television stations, radio outlets, and newspapers that have an editorial line.

Our worry is that in the past eight months it has become a bit more crucial because people have begun to be detained. These four cases are an example of what has been happening in the past eight months, which wasn't necessarily the case before.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

On the issue of polarization, has it become sort of a class warfare between rich and poor, or is it much more complex than that?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

I would say it is far more complex than that. It is true that during the last election--I can't remember the exact percentages--Chavez won by not an overwhelming amount, not over 80% but by less. So it is getting to be more complex than that, I would say.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Can you just elaborate on your knowledge of the legislature in Venezuela? I don't have a lot of access to that information. What is the ability of the opposition to actually voice its concerns in the Parliament? Could you just elaborate for us on what is taking place there?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

Yes, they can elaborate their concerns within Parliament. The problem is that most members of the Parliament are part of the party of the president at the moment, and that has been the case for a few years. So there is very little manoeuvring within that space.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Are those voices, those parliamentarians who are dissenting against Chavez, able to actually speak to the national media? Or is there a similar procedure to here in Canada, where the media comes to them after there is a statement in Parliament?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

That is definitely the case. Yes, they definitely have been able to do that. But again I stress that lately, because of this stronger clamp-down on people being detained for saying things, I think they are becoming wary as to how intimidated they might or might not feel. But there is definitely space for that.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you for clarifying these points, because we've never been able to get access to that. I appreciate that information. Thank you.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you, Mr. Silva.

Mr. Dorion, you have the floor for eight minutes.

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Ms. Marengo, can you hear me okay?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

Yes, I can, thank you.

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

One of Venezuela's political problems, problems that have probably also contributed to the totalitarian nature of the regime, is that the opposition boycotted the last elections en masse, which led to almost the entire legislature supporting Mr. Chavez.

Do you think that the decision to boycott the elections was justified? Was it a wise decision at the time?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

Yes. Unfortunately, at Amnesty International we have no position on that particular boycott you're mentioning. We are mainly concerned with the human rights violations that happen in the country. As Amnesty International, we haven't taken a position on whether or not it was a good idea to boycott those elections. We campaign for human rights violations not to occur and for people to be protected from human rights violations. So we have no position on that particular question you're asking.

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Could you not be criticized for isolating the human rights issue from its larger context, which is obviously very political in the case of Venezuela?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Director, Regional Program (Americas), Amnesty International

Guadalupe Marengo

Definitely. The context is incredibly important. That's why we are pushing. Our concern is for there to be transparency, for there to be accountability, and for whichever government is in power to prevent human rights violations, to protect people from human rights violations, and to investigate human rights violations.

One of the things we find at the moment with the cases of impunity we have documented, the ones I mentioned here and others we have documented, is that not only are there no investigations and nobody is brought to justice, but nobody at the higher level appears to be saying that they're not going to tolerate these human rights violations. That's our concern.

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Aside from human rights violations by the authorities, the government, are human rights violations also committed by the opposition? Is there intimidation, and so on? Could those accusations also be levelled at the opposition?