Evidence of meeting #35 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghani.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Reverend Majed El Shafie  Founder and President, One Free World International

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Order, please.

This is the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. Today, November 30, 2010, we are holding our 35th meeting.

We are being televised.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are making a study of human rights in Afghanistan.

It is our pleasure this morning to have as our guest Reverend Majed El Shafie, who is the founder and president of One Free World International.

Reverend El Shafie, welcome.

Mr. Sweet.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Thank you, Chair.

I didn't want to interrupt our witness; I just want to clear up a quick piece of business. I believe we have unanimous consent regarding a motion on in camera meetings. There is a small friendly amendment that Madam Deschamps wants to make with regard to translation. I think everybody is in agreement, so we can clear that off.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Let's just confirm that.

Everybody knows what Mr. Sweet is talking about? I'm going to assume there were discussions. Is there in fact unanimous consent?

Ms. Deschamps, go ahead, please.

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Chairman, we should check the French wording, which is a cut and paste version of the rules previously established in the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

In French, after “à être accompagné d’un membre de son personnel aux séances à huis clos,” instead it should read: “et d'une autre personne de chaque parti.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

So you want to modify the French text from the end of the second line, where it states: “aux séances à huis clos et qu'une autre personne par parti soit autorisée à être présente.” Is that correct?

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Yes.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right, then, in that form—

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

We should add “chaque” in French and “each” in English.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right. With that correction made, is there agreement to adopt it?

1:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

We have agreement.

Mr. Sweet.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

There was one other item, since we have an agreement on that. I'm loath to take any time from our witness, as he is a high-quality witness, but this is germane to our concerns right now.

Youcef Naderkhani, on September 21, was sentenced to death in Iran. He was given a verbal sentence of death at that time. Later, on November 13, he was delivered that verdict in writing. And right now the clock is ticking for the 20 days that are allowed for appeal, after which time the sentence is going to be carried out on him. I want to bring this urgent issue to your attention.

MP Sorenson and I have had people e-mailing us regarding Naderkhani's situation. I want to get it on the agenda as quickly as possible after today's meeting.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

I'm assuming there'll be a motion of some sort that will come before the committee for our Thursday meeting, or something to that effect? Okay, good. And if you wish, you could submit witness suggestions as well.

I'm going to turn back to Reverend El Shafie. Seeing that we've taken a bit of Reverend El Shafie's time at the front end, I'll watch the clock very leniently toward the end of the hour. When we've completed the questions, Reverend El Shafie has asked for the chance to make a one-minute final statement. I've told him that this seems agreeable to me, and I'm sure it's agreeable to all of you.

Once we're done with that, we have one other matter. Professor Cotler had a motion on a different subject. He came to me and said there is widespread support for this, so I'd like to deal with it at the end, before we leave.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

We could deal with it right now.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Actually, let's do that. Then it will all be done.

Everybody knows about your motion, Professor Cotler?

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Yes, they do.

The notice of motion is with regard to Sergei Magnitsky. I have accepted the amendment by Mr. Sweet, and also the suggestion that was presented in that regard by Madame Deschamps. So I think the motion has been agreed to by all.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

To be procedurally correct, I have to ask if there is consent to the amendment, and then I'll ask if there is consent. Let's start with the amendment.

Madame Deschamps.

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Cotler, is this a new motion or an amended motion?

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

It's the same motion, but amended based on the wording proposed by David Sweet and what you told me. So I've added the following:

WHEREAS the Subcommittee takes note of and joins in solidarity with “justice for Sergei” initiatives in the U.S. Congress, the European Parliament, and Moscow-based human rights NGOs.

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

The part that starts with “CALL upon the Russian Federation” is still there?

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Yes, it's there too.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

I'll just confirm that we have agreement to the amendment.

1:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

(Motion as amended agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

Okay, good. That is done.

Let's go back to Reverend El Shafie.

Thank you for your patience. As I said, I'm going to have us go a little bit longer to make up for the time we've lost at the front end.

With many thanks for your patience, I would ask you, Reverend, to please begin.

November 30th, 2010 / 1:10 p.m.

The Reverend Majed El Shafie Founder and President, One Free World International

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, respected members of Parliament, for having me this morning to testify about the human rights violations that are taking place in Afghanistan.

My name is Reverend Majed El Shafie. I'm the founder and president of One Free World International for human rights. Our organization works on human rights violations that are taking place in different places in the world, in 28 countries. We have branches in 28 countries, and one of them is Afghanistan.

Four years ago I visited Afghanistan. When we went there, we were able to connect with local human rights organizations, we were able to connect with different individuals, we were able to build a system, and we were able to build a group on the ground, basically to monitor the human rights situation in Afghanistan during the past four years. But in the past four years, especially in the last two years, the information and the reports about human rights violations in Afghanistan have started to get worse and worse. So we indicated that we have to go to Afghanistan to visit the victims and to meet with some government officials there to confront them about their level of human rights violations.

From June 25 to June 30, 2010, One Free World International went with a delegation of human rights activists, media personnel, and even one of the members of this committee, Mr. Mario Silva, who accompanied us to Afghanistan. We met with the deputy foreign affairs minister of Afghanistan, the deputy minister of education, and with different human rights organizations, such as Dr. Jalal's foundation. We met with Dr. Sima Samar from the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission. We even met with the president's security adviser in the presidential palace. But most important of all, we met with victims.

On this trip we were able to pinpoint three main issues of human rights violations that are taking place right now in Afghanistan, and it's getting worse.

The number one issue is the abuse of women that is taking place in Afghanistan. To start with, Afghanistan has issues with women's abuse, in that there are forced marriages, exchange marriages, and under-age marriages. But the problem here is that as this has become part of the culture of the society, the Afghani government made it even worse by passing a law last year, on July 27, 2009. This law was the Shia Personal Status Law. According to this law, if a woman refused to sleep with her husband every four days, he'd have the right to starve her to death, to stop the necessities of life to her. This is according to the Afghani law.

Now, I'm not talking about the Taliban; I'm talking about the Hamid Karzai government. According to this law as well, a woman cannot work, cannot leave her home or her apartment without permission from her husband, and it allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying blood money to his victim. So basically, if a man rapes a woman, he doesn't need to go to prison if he pays her money. He doesn't need to go to the court. This is according to the law that was passed last year by the Afghani government. This is in contradiction of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, which the government of Afghanistan signed onto in March 2003.

When we met with some of these ladies, such as Fatima or Zahira or Ahmadia, they indicated to us that they'd been raped by their husbands and that when they refused they were beaten and all the necessities of life, such as food and clean water, were stopped until they gave their husbands what they wanted. One of these victims said in front of me that the punishment in some areas in Afghanistan was to hang a woman upside down and to beat her with sticks until she soiled herself. One of the victims said that.

Moving on to the second subject is the boy play, or the bacha bazi. In the boy play the Afghani rich elite bring little boys, they make them dress like girls, they make them dance at a party, and at the end of the party whoever pays more will rape this little boy. This is taking place right now in Afghanistan. Some members of the government are taking part in these kinds of celebrations.

The United Nations declared this is a form of sex slavery. This contravenes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 4, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, article 24. There is a law against boy play in the Afghani government, but the enforcement of this law is another story.

When we met with the victims, such as Farho, who is 16 years old and was abused by the age of 14, he told us he would get raped by eight to ten men every night. When he went to the police--this was Farho, age 16.... Muqtar was another victim, 16 years old, and when I asked him why he didn't go to the police officers and inform them of this crime, that somebody was raping him, he said when he went to tell the police officers they did the same thing to him at the police station.

The last subject we were in touch with when we went to Afghanistan was on May 27 and 28, 2010. There was a television news show, and they showed some Afghani Muslims getting baptized and converting to Christianity, 25 of them. This was not the first time. I don't know if you remember, but in March 2006 a gentleman by the name of Abdul Rahman converted from Islam to Christianity. He was put in jail and under international pressure they said he was insane and sent him to Italy. I don't know if you recall this case. But the reason was that on May 27 and 28 Afghani television showed 25 Muslims converting to Christianity and getting baptized.

What has happened is that Mr. Abdul Attar Khawasi, a respected member of the Afghani Parliament, the deputy secretary in the lower house said, and I quote: “Those Afghanis that appeared in this video film should be executed in public, the house should order the attorney general and the NDS”--the intelligence agency in Afghanistan--“to arrest these Afghanis and execute them.” He said this in the Afghani Parliament in front of Afghani national television without any shame.

President Hamid Karzai's spokesperson has stated that the president himself has taken on this matter and urged his interior minister and the head of intelligence to investigate. I am now quoting the spokesperson of Mr. Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan: “...to take immediate and serious action to prevent this phenomenon.”

I'm not talking here about a debate about religion. I'm not talking about one religion being better than another. This is not a debate about religion. This is about freedom of religion and being free to convert to whatever religion you want.

After that they shut down two churches, Church World Service and Norwegian Church Aid, which had nothing to do with the conversion of these 25 people, and they shut down 13 Christian NGOs.

Next week, next Sunday, one of the 25--and the 25 are subject to torture and rape in the prison--one of them, Mr. Said Musa, will have his tenth trial in the Kabul court.

Our organization succeeded, through our work underground in Afghanistan, to basically be able to get inside the Afghani intelligence security system. I hold right now in my hand a document signed by the minister himself and his colleagues and the Afghani police to arrest Ali Walid Rida, Salim Walid Mohammed Nasim, Shukrullah Walid Nedra Ali, Rahmatullah Walid Kareem Bakhesh, and Ali Mizrai Walid Hasan Shah. These are some of the people who converted from Islam to Christianity. They order their arrests and to stone them to death.