Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I don't have any other questions over here. I'm just going to ask another one.

With regard to the Canadian visa officers, we did hear from a previous witness that there was a separate problem—or at least it appeared there was a potential separate problem—with locally engaged staff at our Nairobi mission, who might have some of the local prejudices against gays and lesbians, and that this would cause people who might be approaching us to be afraid to approach us because of that first level of person they encounter at the mission.

I get the impression you're not talking about the locally engaged people, but about the staff who are Canadian citizens. They may have a separate issue--not so much attitudinal, but just a lack of understanding.

Am I understanding that correctly?

[Prof. Nicole LaViolette]

I'm talking about both. I think if there are locally engaged staff who are part of processing refugee applications, there would be concerns about that. Whether they do have prejudices or not, I think that refugees would assume that they do, and that they share the cultural approaches in their countries that are quite negative to sexual orientation and gender identity.

Whether they are or not is not the issue. It's whether we can convey to applicants that it is a safe place. I don't think they will think it's safe if they're facing someone from their region who they will assume has those negative attitudes.

Then I think there is a separate issue: I'm not sure that Canadian visa officers—I think there are three in Nairobi—have ever had any kind of training to explore those issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay. That helps to clarify it a lot.

In terms of how to get past the understandable fears that an applicant might have, how does one accomplish it? Is it through word of mouth? Do you have any ideas?

[Prof. Nicole LaViolette]

I'm not sure I understood the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

If I'm afraid of approaching the Canadian mission because I'm afraid I'll be received with prejudice, I'm just wondering how the mission gets the information out somehow to people like me that I need not be afraid.

[Prof. Nicole LaViolette]

I think you do that by engaging with some of the refugee organizations working with these communities to let them know this is a welcome application. As I said, there are some credible local refugee organizations that are working with these vulnerable communities.

Sometimes it's very simple things: you walk into the visa office, and there is some kind of poster talking about gay and lesbian rights in a positive way. The person sitting in that waiting room may slowly understand that Canada has these kinds of values and that it may be safe to raise this aspect. I know the UNHCR is thinking about those kinds of visual cues for the claimants in order to try to communicate to them before they have to raise the issue that this is a safe place to talk about those issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay.

I wanted to go back briefly to the first thing I asked you, which had to do with looking at the other countries that are places of refuge for our GLBT people from Uganda. What I was thinking at that time—I don't know if I expressed it well as a thought—was that if we genuinely want to be helpful on this front, Canada has to not merely improve our take-up time and the speed with which we act beyond where we are now: we have to improve it so that it's better than other countries, or else they can go there and resolve their problems that way.

It's a bit like outrunning a bear. It's not a matter of running faster. It's a matter of running faster than the next guy. I realize you wouldn't have the stuff off the top of your head, but would any of the organizations you deal with have this information and be able to convey it to us? If so, it would be very helpful.

[Prof. Nicole LaViolette]

ORAM, an organization based in San Francisco, is working with refugees in countries like Turkey and Kenya. They have started to engage in private sponsorships in the U.S. and they've been successful in getting LGBT resettled in the U.S. I think they have their first two cases and they're starting a larger program to encourage that.

They actually have a Canadian working for them, Rachel Levitan. If you wanted to invite her to testify, I think that she could certainly talk a bit more about her experience with other countries and why it may be more successful, for instance, to resettle a Ugandan in the U.S. than it is in Canada. She would have direct experience of that.

I agree with you that we'd like to be ahead on this issue. My understanding is that many LGBT refugees have a very good idea that Canada is a good place to come if you are fearing persecution based on sexual orientation. It's a huge disappointment for them when they're told to not even bother thinking about Canada if they're going through that part of Africa, that it's just not an option, so they readjust and start thinking about other places. That often is their first choice, but we're just not able to meet it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I very much appreciate that.

Is there anybody else who has further questions? It doesn't appear to be the case.

In that case, we all thank you very much.

We'll pause a moment and then deal with some committee business that Mr. Silva has.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We're back in session. We're in public and not in camera, but we are no longer on camera, if you follow. We're not being televised.

Mr. Silva has a motion. I'll turn things over to him.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to thank the members for their support of the motion. Since the motion that I put forward on Pakistan's blasphemy laws, there was some support, but there were some language and technical issues that needed to be changed. With the support of some of my colleagues, I have made additional changes.

It's really in the sixth paragraph, where it says, “That the subcommittee call on the Government of Canada...”. I will read the French version. We'll use the French version, as the language and hopefully the translation will make the proper modifications. There was some confusion between the English and the French translation. I'll say the section for that paragraph in French, and hopefully the English will make the appropriate modifications.

That the Subcommittee call on the Government of Canada to urge the Government of Pakistan to amend its domestic legislation so as to reflect its international human rights obligations, particularly its anti-blasphemy provisions, so that they cannot be invoked to harass minorities; …

Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

The English translation was exactly what is here, so it is fine.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Well, it sounds better in French anyway.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Certainly, my friend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Was that the only change?

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

That's it, yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right.

Is there consensus on that with the new wording?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

(Motion agreed to)

Okay.

We have a consensus.

We have passed that.

As usual, I'm being instructed to report that to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

The clerk and I are going to try to meet with the committee, probably on March 1. That's the first Tuesday we're back. This will be one of a number of items we will have. We've been instructed to present a number of motions.

Today I'm taking a letter to the Minister of Immigration that I was instructed to take to him on the subject of Uganda. The clerk prepared that for me on our letterhead, and I'll be presenting that to him if I can buttonhole him after question period. Hopefully, I'll have fulfilled that injunction from you.

Is there any other business anyone wants to bring up?

Go ahead, Madame Deschamps.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'm sure that the topic I am going to raise is less serious than Mr. Hiebert's.

I see that at each one of our committee meetings, food is served. No one ever eats it, which is too bad. I don't know if this food is meant for us, but what concerns me is being wasteful. We could have coffee and cookies, instead of sandwiches. That would be perfect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

It's a good point. What I'm going to suggest is that before we have a discussion about this....

At the last session, the cost for food and refreshments over a period of one year was about $5,000. The menu was a little more elaborate than what we get now.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Can these items be in camera, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

You want to do this in camera?

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I would think so.