Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 15th, 2011

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

In military exercises of that nature, that is how it happens, especially if you're dealing with an unarmed force, because he has the ability to take his time and select his targets.

This whole situation, the leadership in Iraq, reminds me of a magician. A magician will distract you with one hand and they'll pick your pocket with the other hand. It seems that they become involved with either the United Nations or the U.S. and talk very reasonable talk to them and then very shortly thereafter there's another attack. It's very troubling. The request that's coming before this committee is very reasonable: to allow the UNHCR to find a place for these people. It's very fundamental.

Under refugee laws in most places, irrespective of history, irrespective of anything else, when a group of people or an individual is under threat of death or torture, then an accommodation is sought to find refuge for them, and after that the history can be dealt with if it needs to be dealt with.

We have an extreme deadline before us. This is the last day our Parliament's going to be sitting. So at the end of this meeting, Mr. Chair, we as a committee need to consider our options, what we can do.

It must be very close to the end of my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

You actually have about ten seconds left.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'll reiterate that we as a committee should decide what our response is going to be. We've had our two resolutions. Do we want to go further?

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Marston.

We'll turn now to Mr. Hiebert and then after that Professor Cotler.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Zanjani, for being here. I appreciate your testimony today.

We've heard from a variety of witnesses, some of whom, like Colonel Martin, have been to the camp, some of whom are familiar with the issue, and some of whom are officials, but this is the first time we've had a chance to hear from a resident of the camp.

You mentioned that you went there in 1999. Why did you go there?

[Elham Zanjani]

Before I answer, I want to thank you once again for having me here. It's a great honour.

I'm sure you know Ashraf is the hope and aspiration of millions of Iranians, inside Iran and outside of Iran. It's a place where people who have escaped the Iranian regime's tyranny, prisons, or torture are living right now. I went there to visit because I wanted to see what I could do to help my people out of all the torture and execution that was going on in Iran. I went to visit, and I was very happy there. I found friends and decided to stay there.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Where did you go from?

[Elham Zanjani]

From here.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

From here, and how did you get there?

[Elham Zanjani]

By airplane.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

To Iraq, and then you drove?

[Elham Zanjani]

Yes.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay.

We're told that there were eleven Canadians, and nine of them have left, including yourself, but there are two other Canadians who are still there. Why do you think they're still there? Why have they not left?

[Elham Zanjani]

I can't speak on their behalf. I don't know.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

No idea?

[Elham Zanjani]

I don't know.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay.

I'm still wondering about the attack. You've provided graphic video evidence of what happened. I just don't understand why they were attacked so indiscriminately. You mentioned conversations you had with the soldiers. Did you get any sense of an explanation? Did you get any sense of what their objective was?

[Elham Zanjani]

That's what we're trying to find out as well. Navi Pillay asked after the attack for investigations to be carried out in Ashraf. No investigation was undertaken. That's what we're asking as well. Why? Why the need to come with armed forces to an unarmed residential area? Why?

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Why did they stop? Did they achieve their objective?

[Elham Zanjani]

I don't know. I don't know why they stopped.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Clearly, it must have been a horrific situation for the camp residents, but it's just unimaginable how humans could kill other humans who are unarmed, as you've described. It's just beyond belief.

A lot of talk has been put towards relocating members of the camp. Have you heard from others who have left the camp, either to go back to Iran or to other nations?

[Elham Zanjani]

I know people who have citizenship.... I don't if countries other than Canada have accepted people to go back to their.... For example, I was able to come back to my country, Canada, but I don't know about other people. As for people who wanted to go back to Iran, or want to go, there's nothing stopping them.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Have you heard of what has happened to people who have returned to Iran?

[Elham Zanjani]

No, I don't follow up on it.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay.

One of the accusations we've heard is that the members of Camp Ashraf are part of a cult, or that there's something peculiar--to be kind--about them. Some people use more derogatory terms. Why would people say that? And how would you respond to those accusations?