Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 15th, 2011

[Elham Zanjani]

A so-called cult, as to what I know, is something where everybody has to follow one command and do whatever one person says, but it's not like that in Ashraf. We're able to speak out. We're able to say what we want to say. We're free there. For example, I don't know if cults have emotions. Do they? When I still speak about my friends...I mean, I can't stop thinking about them, now that I'm here safe in Canada.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

It sounds like a tight-knit community, but it's hard to imagine it being beyond that. People are free to leave when they want?

[Elham Zanjani]

Yes.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Come and go?

[Elham Zanjani]

Yes.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

You talked about the speakers, the ones that are keeping everyone sleepless. How long have they been in place?

[Elham Zanjani]

It's over 20 months, I think, from after 2009. I don't know exactly the specific date, but it's been a long time.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

If residents were given the opportunity to relocate, is it important or is it essential to them to be relocated together, or are they fine being dispersed to different locations outside of Iraq?

[Elham Zanjani]

I don't think it's an issue if they'd be together. They just want to be safe and out. But the point is that until this process is carried out and gone through, they have to be protected. That's the issue. I was there, and since August residents who don't have citizenship in other countries have applied at the UNHCR. The UNHCR accepted and approved starting the process, but the Iraqi government hasn't given them the opportunity to come and start the process.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

We've heard testimony that Iraq is actually working very closely with Iran on this issue. You've talked about hearing Iranians and seeing Iranians. Can you provide us any other evidence that would suggest that Iran is either partially or more fully responsible for what is happening?

[Elham Zanjani]

Well, I think the two-sided agreement made by Maliki when he went to see Khamenei at the start of 2009 is the best thing that I can tell you. I don't have it in writing right now. I don't know specifically what it is. I can send it to you, but that was an agreement they made. It was from then that the pressure on Ashraf started.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

That will end this round of questions.

Professor Cotler, it's your turn.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being with us today.

I don't know if you had an opportunity to read or become aware of the testimony of Barbara Martin, who came before this committee. She is the director general of the Middle East and Maghreb bureau of the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. I will just read you a portion from her testimony, and then the particular part that I'd like you to maybe react to.

She said as follows, and I'm quoting from her testimony: “The Iraqi government has provided repeated assurances that Camp Ashraf residents will not be forcibly transferred to a country in which they would face persecution and that they will be humanely treated in accordance with Iraq's laws, constitution, and international obligations. The April 8 raid by Iraqi security forces that left 36 members of the camp dead last spring was deeply troubling and completely unacceptable. This episode of recent history must not be repeated.”

Then she goes on to make the statement I want to ask you about. She said: “However, in the months since then the Iraqi government has cooperated with the international community to ensure that the security and humanitarian needs of the camp's residents are met. Since the announcement of the closure the Iraqi government has demonstrated its willingness to cooperate with EU states, the United States, Iraq's neighbours, and Iran, in order to resettle Ashrafi residents outside Iraq.”

Would that be a correct comment, from your appreciation of the situation?

[Elham Zanjani]

Considering what I saw and witnessed through the Iraqi government.... I mean, we're saying that the Iraqi government, before the April attack, gave a written guarantee that they would not attack or use force against the residents. The next morning they stormed in with their tanks and killed people.

I think that's the best thing I can say. I mean, we cannot listen to the Iraqi government say that they promise and they will do this and they will do that, while in the past two years they have killed 47 people and wounded thousands. I think it's not acceptable to just listen to something the Iraqi government is saying they're promising.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Well, have they, as the witness Barbara Martin tried to suggest, been cooperating with the international community to ensure that the security and humanitarian needs of the camp residents are met?

[Elham Zanjani]

Well, if we're speaking about cooperation, then they should have let the UNHCR start its process. Why all the stonewalling? Why all the problems? The Iraqi government is not cooperating.

I mean, when the international community and Mr. Ban Ki-moon are saying that we're worried about the situation, or when Canada itself, in the resolution you released, stated that you're worried about the situation.... So Maliki has to stop that deadline. We cannot.... I believe that Ashraf residents or myself.... I do not trust Maliki and his statements.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Another statement that was made by Ms. Martin when she appeared before us—and again, I'm just trying to get an appreciation of what has been happening on the ground—was that “The government of Iraq has also allowed international organizations such as the United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq--UNAMI--and the International Committee of the Red Cross to visit the camp on a very regular basis. In fact, UNAMI has been visiting weekly of late.”

[Elham Zanjani]

UNAMI visits on a weekly basis, but monitoring the situation is not enough, because in 15 days we don't know what's going to happen. We don't want another attack to happen, and then just say it's unfortunate. We want something to stop it now.

I don't believe the Iraqi government is working with the international community to find a resolution, because in the international community, everyone is worried about the situation there. The Iraq government could just extend the deadline to perhaps a year. Even better than that, it could take the deadline off, so the UNHCR can start its process, and then allow UN monitors to come in and allow protection to be helped during this process by UN blue helmets and the United States, or any other country that is willing.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

As you know, al-Maliki visited recently with President Obama. As testimony before us has demonstrated, on previous occasions when high-ranking Iraqi officials visited with a high-ranking American official, such as former Secretary of Defense Mr. Gates, attacks followed thereafter. The concern expressed to us was that such an attack could now follow as a result of the visit of al-Maliki with President Obama.

Is it your understanding that any assurances were asked for or given in that meeting? What should the United States be doing at this point?

[Elham Zanjani]

As to what went on in that meeting, I don't know. I was hoping the U.S. President would take a firm stance to this issue. The United States promised Ashraf residents, since 2003 until final displacement, that they would protect Ashraf residents. The U.S. colonels gave it to us in writing.

What's important now is that President Obama should tell Maliki to stop the deadline, and to stop the killing. If this is not stated, he's going to have an open hand to continue with this killing at the end of the year.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much for your testimony.

I have to go to the House, Scott; I'm sorry about this. I'll have to leave.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right, thank you very much. You timed that perfectly, Professor.

We turn now to Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you, Ms. Zanjani.

Sitting here, seeing your videos and listening to your testimony of what you have gone through and experienced, I feel very badly for you.

I have read that about one-third of the residents of Camp Ashraf wish to return to Iran. Is this true?

[Elham Zanjani]

I don't know exactly, but if anybody wants to go back to Iran, they can.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do you trust that if the residents return back to Iran, they will be treated fairly there?