Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 28th, 2012

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to take another approach to the issue of anti-Semitism. I think Mr. Cotler made my feelings very clear regarding the kinds of relationships we would have with a regime that sponsors terrorism, that treats its own people with impunity, and that has called for the wiping off of the map of a state that is a good friend of Canada's. The situation is extremely problematic, and it is not one, we should make very clear to the Venezuelan government, that we want to continue or one that will go, in any way, shape, or form, without any kind of diplomatic repercussions from us.

I want to go one step further on the issue of anti-Semitism. You mentioned that our embassy had been providing some support for the minorities there. Could you expand on that and give us an idea of how they provide support to the Jewish minority there?

[Neil Reeder]

On the consular side, of course, we provide consular services. Venezuela broke diplomatic ties with Israel in 2009 over the Israeli military action against Hamas in the Gaza strip. After that, Israel asked Canada to represent their interests in Venezuela, which are chiefly consular. In that instance, this was agreed to by the Government of Venezuela.

We monitor the human rights situation domestically, but we also provide services to the resident community. We've encouraged the government there to reject and combat anti-Semitism when it manifests itself. My examples, to be fair, refer to instances where, in the state broadcaster or public media, we've seen references of a derogatory, anti-Semitic nature vis-à-vis Israel. We have a couple of examples of that instance. We also hold President Chavez to his word when he met the Jewish community leaders a little over a year ago and said that he had the greatest respect for them and for their contribution. He told his party members publicly that anti-Semitism was unacceptable.

We have followed up, as I mentioned, on instances where, on state television, one of the reporters broadcast anti-Semitic remarks. I raised that, and secondly, there were comments made in relation to an opposition leader named Henrique Capriles, where, again, anti-Semitic comments were made towards him. As a result of that, we intervened through our ambassador in Caracas with the foreign ministry. In this instance, it was an article on the website that was removed at Canada's insistence. We follow this very closely, and we will continue to express our views when we see issues like this develop. The Government of Israel is very appreciative of our role in the country and of the support that we provide to the Jewish community.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you.

I'll put on record too that I think the testimony we heard on a couple of occasions was not about Chavez himself, but generally about his lieutenants and others in his government who were making these kinds of statements. He always made sure that he was distanced from them in this regard.

In the recent past, since we had our last hearings about a year ago on Venezuela, have you seen some positive development regarding the Chavez regime and their treatment of human rights NGOs? We had a number of witnesses here who were talking about their concern with human rights and not being able to get an audience with the government. Do you see some more receptivity in the past year in that regard?

[Neil Reeder]

I think the record is still mixed.

One point I do recall is that there was an effort at one time to restrict international funding to those NGOs. I believe they have now backed off after international pressures from Canada and others who raised concerns. It was a pattern we were seeing in a number of the countries of the ALBA group where they were essentially trying to restrict international assistance to some of these NGOs that don't have a lot of means to do their work. Consequently, they feel under pressure from the host government. Part of our work with the human rights award is to also recognize these NGOs and to give them support.

We also engage quite directly with the congress of Venezuela—all parties, including the Chavez party, but also with other opposition members—to ensure dialogue with them and have a good assessment. We're trying to reach out into that network as well. Overall, with civil society, the record is still very mixed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Mme Péclet, vous avez la parole.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I would like to know the Government of Canada's position regarding relations between Iran and Venezuela. Can you comment on the relationship between their two heads of state?

[Neil Reeder]

As I mentioned earlier in response to the other question, I think that these are two governments that are very isolated from the rest of the world. They lack support and partners. These are people who are operating on the margins of international relations and who are looking for friendships and links, be it for trade or other types of relations. These make for very small circles. I think that reflects the reality. Iran's policy, which our government rejects, means that that country is looking for allies wherever possible. I think that's what they did in the case of Venezuela.

There is another issue. These two governments see countries like the United States in the same way. They're sometimes similar when it comes to criticism, positions and their isolation vis-à-vis certain countries like the United States, Canada and others.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The media recently reported that Venezuela provides fuel to the Syrian regime. Do you have a position on that?

[Neil Reeder]

I can't comment on that, but I saw the same press report. We can't confirm something like that, but it is true there have been reports on the subject.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You also talked about security. We do know that the Chávez regime has allowed many people to climb out of poverty and allowed the country to increase its human development index. As you indicated in your report, there has been a deterioration in security conditions. Can you tell us more about the security conditions you're referring to here?

[Neil Reeder]

This actually has to do with the safety and security of citizens in the streets. There's a lot of violent crime, murders and flash kidnappings. People are actually being kidnapped and their families are asked for ransoms. Many people are affected by this serious phenomenon in Venezuela. Several factors contribute to this high crime rate. It's one of the highest in Latin America and in the world, outside of war zones.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Could this be because the government has reduced the number of police officers? What has the government done that has led to security being worse than under previous regimes?

[Neil Reeder]

We think that the government hasn't done enough to improve security. I travel a great deal in the region and I've noted that the security of citizens is a priority for all governments in the region of Central America and the Caribbean. I don't understand why, but I think that the Government of Venezuela hasn't done enough to tackle this problem. Perhaps it had other priorities.

There's also the impact of drug trafficking. As I mentioned earlier, gangs have a very negative influence on the degree of security in a country.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

What is the Canadian government doing in this regard? You mentioned in your presentation that Venezuela is one of Canada's largest economic partners. It's an oil producer and we import a lot of oil from this country. So what could Canada do to demand that the Government of Venezuela improve security and invest in the justice system or in its police forces? Does the government have a policy or a plan?

[Neil Reeder]

I understand your question.

Our policy for supporting security is focused on Central America and the Caribbean right now. Our anti-crime programs target Central America and the Caribbean.

We haven't really broached the subject with Venezuela because that country can afford to ensure its own security. We're not talking about countries like Haiti, Bolivia or Honduras, which are among the poorest countries in the hemisphere. Personally I feel that this is the responsibility of the Government of Venezuela. It should look after its own security issues. We will earmark our limited funds for Guatemala and Salvador, who have fewer resources to help their citizens.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I have to end those questions, but I do have one point. I'm struck by the earlier question related to the homicide rate now vis-à-vis prior to the Chavez regime, which is a few years now. But I notice—again, in looking at my online source here—that the homicide rate per 100,000 went from 48 per 100,000 in 2010 to 67, which is about a 40% increase.

Obviously there is something driving this; I suppose it could be a statistical error, but I think with a number this high it would be something else. Is it conceivable that the reforms being made to the national policing...? Your ambassador told me that the government was anxious to centralize its police force and felt that the multiplicity of small police forces at a local level was a problem. Is it conceivable that this reform has caused law enforcement to collapse to some degree?

[Neil Reeder]

I'd prefer to verify that before I comment formally, but one could argue, I'm sure, sir, that that has been a factor. If you start that kind of major reorganization, as we've seen in a number of ministries, they become less efficient at doing their jobs, and you're seeing people at senior levels who are not professionals but who are there for other reasons, like ideology, and it tends to impact upon the ministries.

The oil ministry is a good example where we're seeing production declining. The general management skill sets aren't there. Some people have left the country because of the situation. Some people are being promoted for partisan reasons, ideology rather than competence.

I believe, in the case of the police, another factor is also the reorganization, as you mentioned. We didn't talk about the gun situation, but a lot of weapons are moving around South America. We're not immune to the realities of that region, which provokes a lot of the crime as well, because it is a region with weapons circulating, coming out of zones of conflict in the region, and weapons are transiting into the Caribbean and Central America.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much. We appreciate your testimony here today.

Unfortunately, we're going to have to kick you out of the room because we are going in camera. All our visitors have to leave; only MPs and one staff member per MP can remain.

We will suspend while that takes place.

[Proceedings continue in camera]