Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 28th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Good afternoon everyone. Today, February 28, 2012, we are holding the 24^th meeting of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

We are continuing our study—which now stretches over two parliaments—into human rights in Venezuela. We have with us today as our witness, Neil Reeder, who is the director general of the Latin America and Caribbean desk at the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

Mr. Reeder, I did not shake your hand because I think I have the flu and I don't want to infect you. It was not out of unfriendliness; we are very glad to have you here. I'm sure our ever-competent clerk has advised you about the length of remarks, and therefore I invite you to begin.

[Neil Reeder, Director General, Latin America and Caribbean, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee today to discuss the human rights situation in Venezuela.

The Canadian government has made the strengthening of our relations with Latin America and the Caribbean a foreign policy priority since 2007.

Focused on the promotion of prosperity, security and democratic governance, the Americas Engagement Strategy seeks to build on our long history of commerce, investment, diplomatic engagement, development cooperation, immigration and people-to-people ties in the region.

Canada is working with governments and democratic actors in the Americas to build strong, effective and accountable democracies that respond to the needs and interests of citizens.

Canada also seeks to protect human rights and consolidate the democratic gains the region has achieved over the past two decades.

At the Organization of American States, the OAS, Canada continues to defend vigorously the integrity and the independence of regional human rights institutions affiliated with the OAS, notably through its provision of financial and other support over the past few years to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, the Inter-American Institute of Human Rights, the Inter-American Children's Institute, and the OAS Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Expression.

Canada continues to support and work towards a full implementation of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, signed in Quebec City in 2001, which celebrated its 10th anniversary this past fall. We lead a resolution on this issue each year and continue to advocate in favour of measures to advance this cause, including appointment of an independent OAS Rapporteur on Democracy and the establishment of a regional compendium of best democratic practices.

Turning to Venezuela itself by way of background, Canada has considerable ties with the country. First, it is an important commercial market. Venezuela is ranked as Canada's largest agrifood export destination in Central and South America. Venezuela is also Canada's fourth-largest trading partner in Latin America and the Caribbean, excluding Mexico. Bilateral merchandise trade totalled $1.3 billion in 2010, including Canadian exports worth $559 million.

On the political front, there have been a number of developments in Venezuela since senior officials from our department last appeared before this subcommittee. The presidential election in Venezuela is scheduled for October 7 this year. On February 12, the opposition coalition in Venezuela held their first-ever primary election, where candidate Henrique Capriles Radonski was declared the single opposition candidate to lead this coalition.

Capriles is the current governor of the populous Miranda state and has positioned himself as a centre-left candidate. He has said he would maintain most of Venezuelan President Chavez's social programs were he to win the presidency.

Previously, one candidate who was running for the opposition nomination, Leopoldo López, had been barred from holding office until 2014. The ban was a result of what the government referred to as an “administrative decision” after allegations that López mishandled public funds. When the Inter-American Court of Human Rights ruled that Mr. López's rights should be reinstated, the Supreme Court of Venezuela held firm on its original decision, saying that Mr. López was free to run for office but could not manage public funds if he won.

Last October, at a meeting of the Permanent Council of the OAS, a letter signed by various prominent Canadians was read, calling for the restoration of Mr. López's political rights. At the same meeting, Canada's ambassador to the OAS underscored that member states must take their international obligations seriously. López eventually withdrew from the race for the nomination, although it's unclear how much influence the Supreme Court's decision had on his showing in the polls.

Legislative elections were last held in Venezuela in September 2010. The governing United Socialist Party of Venezuela and the other parties split the popular vote almost evenly. Late that year, in the final days of the outgoing National Assembly, the government of Venezuela introduced a raft of laws—some of which would limit the powers of the incoming, more plural assembly. Another raised concerns about the ongoing capacity of human rights NGOs to do their work.

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights issued a statement on December 15, 2010, highlighting concerns over the passing of another law, the enabling law, which allowed for the executive power to rule by decree for 18 months, including in matters of economic and social policy.

The Venezuelan government argued at the time that this was necessary to deal with the emergency situation created by the heavy rains and floods that left thousands homeless.

With regard to President Chávez's government, it has demonstrated a commitment to gender and minority rights and has established new mechanisms for fostering public participation in democratic institutions. Thanks to the oil-based economy, his administration has also made strides at reducing extreme poverty, improving the lives of many of Venezuela's poorest citizens.

The Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean, for example, has found that Venezuela is one of the countries in the region that has reduced inequality and poverty the most in the last decade. The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, the FAO, ranked Venezuela tenth among the best-nourished countries in the world.

The Venezuelan state has already achieved the first target of the Millennium Development Goals, to halve the number of persons living in extreme poverty between 1990 and 2015.

However, critics point out that under the leadership of President Chavez, security conditions in Venezuela have worsened and some social indicators have stagnated. This has affected all sectors of society, including the poor. Inflation in Venezuela is very high—28% in 2010, 32% in 2011—although it's expected to improve this year. Venezuela also sees continuing high levels of crime and murder rates, which are among the highest in the world, with approximately 19,000 murders reported in 2011.

The human rights situation was the subject of discussion during the UN Human Rights Council's universal periodic review of human rights in Venezuela, a review that took place in October of last year. Of 148 recommendations made, Venezuela accepted 95, rejected 38, and deferred 15 for further consideration. Canada put forward a total of eight recommendations for Venezuela in our intervention. We have provided your subcommittee with copies of Canada's statement.

I will quickly summarize these recommendations: consolidate the rights of women and people belonging to vulnerable groups; prioritize reforms to the law enforcement and judicial system; promote freedom of expression, association, and peaceful assembly; ensure the independence of the judiciary; eliminate the criminalization of contempt and libel in regard to the media; support the activities of human rights defenders and non-governmental organizations through positive public recognition; ensure that human rights defenders continue to have access to international funding; and ensure a participatory and inclusive process with civil society.

Venezuela accepted two of Canada's recommendations: supporting the activities of human rights defenders and independent NGOs; and consolidating the rights of women and people belonging to vulnerable groups. It rejected the other six.

Today, Canada continues to engage the Government of Venezuela in discussing a range of issues, including human rights. While Canada has a resident ambassador in Venezuela, that country is currently represented in Canada at the chargé d'affaires level. We hope an ambassador from Venezuela might be appointed in the near future.

Our embassy in Caracas maintains contact with the Venezuelan government, although our access is limited. We reach out to other political and social interlocutors. We maintain close contact with civil society groups. In June 2011, I visited Venezuela and had a wide-ranging discussion with our counterparts at the Venezuelan Ministry of Foreign Affairs as well as with NGOs and other members of civil society.

In November 2011, a delegation from the Canadian chapter of ParlAmericas, a forum of members of Parliament for the Americas from Canada, visited Venezuela, where issues of trade, social programs, democracy, and human rights were raised.

On another point, Canada continues to offer its support to the Jewish community in Venezuela. Canada represents Israel's interests in Venezuela in accordance with the Vienna convention. The Canadian embassy in Caracas houses one local employee who assists with the applications for Israeli visas and passports. The Canadian ambassador meets regularly with Venezuela's Jewish community and, when appropriate, raises their concerns with Venezuelan government officials.

Our embassy in Caracas also gives out an annual human rights award supporting human rights defenders' work and allowing them to meet with interested parties both in Venezuela and in Canada. This year's recipient is Raúl Cubas, one of the founders of Provea, an NGO that works in the defence and promotion of economic, social, and cultural rights. Mr. Cubas will be attending meetings with interested parties in Canada next month.

In line with our Americas strategy priorities, Mr. Chairman, we will continue to support efforts to strengthen democracy and encourage the Government of Venezuela and Venezuelan society to strengthen protection for human rights and adopt the best practices related to democratic governance.

I'd be very pleased to answer any questions you might have—

in the official language of your choice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay.

We have less time than we normally do because we have to deal with some committee business.

If I set it at five minutes per person, we're likely to run all the way to the end and not get to business. I know this seems harsh, but I'm going to try setting things at four minutes a pop. As we all know, they tend to run over a little bit.

Mr. Sweet, you may begin.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much, Mr. Reeder, for your testimony. I want to go directly to some of the comments you made in your opening statements, particularly around the 19,000 murders that were reported in 2011. I'm wondering if you could explain whether this is an example or an indication of some of the deep issues with the police in Venezuela acting with impunity towards groups that are not desirable to them and also the detachment they have from the Venezuelan government.

[Neil Reeder]

I would answer that perhaps by talking about impunity in a different way. In the context of the judicial system, where there is a high degree of impunity for actions like this—the amount of time it takes to process cases and the low degrees of conviction, for example—people can undertake such actions and not pay or feel the consequences. I think there's a sense that because of this high degree of impunity for actions undertaken, people have many more liberties in terms of taking actions, knowing they won't suffer the consequences.

I guess the other point would be that we have not looked into this. Certainly I have not looked into this closely. There are also dimensions of organized crime, of course, gang activity, and we do recognize that Venezuela is also an important transit point for drug trafficking. This might have an influence on the crime rates we're seeing.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Are you saying...not so much with the crime rates you're talking about, but you're talking about the fact that the high numbers of murders may be attributed to people who are taking the so-called law into their own hands and the police don't have the capacity to deal with them? Is that what you're saying?

[Neil Reeder]

The police may have the capacity, but the judicial system, in terms of reviewing those cases, bringing them forward to trial, getting a conviction, and the conviction rates being very low—which is not a situation unique to Venezuela; it's chronic in many of the countries in the region. Because of that impunity issue, it may be that people take more liberties because they know there's less risk of consequence to them personally.

There are a number of other factors that come into play in terms of, obviously, disparities in income.... There are also questions related to gangs and the drug trafficking and transit, which I think are other factors.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

When we were previously engaged in this investigation a while ago, we heard evidence about a growing anti-Semitism in Venezuela. I think today the relationship between Mr. Chavez and Ahmadinejad from Iran is even closer. What's the situation today with the Jewish minorities in Venezuela?

[Neil Reeder]

We have paid special attention to the situation of the Jewish community in Venezuela, which numbers about 12,000 people. As I mentioned, we do assist that community from a consular perspective in facilitating departure in some instances. We've also encouraged the Government of Venezuela to follow through on the commitment to reject anti-Semitism in all forms and to ensure that the Jewish community is protected, including its religious and cultural centres. We would note that President Chavez met with leaders of the Jewish community in late 2010 and reaffirmed his support for their community.

There have been concerns in the past in relation to comments made on state television, for example, that were of an anti-Semitic nature, and when I was in Venezuela I actually raised this particular case with the authorities and they assured me they took the matter seriously. There have also been a couple of instances where we've been able to intervene after comments of an anti-Semitic nature were made in public media.

So we're very apprised of the situation. We've asked our ambassador to give it special attention and to intervene where appropriate—and this is not only Canada but is common to other countries in Venezuela who continue to monitor this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I'm afraid we're out of time, Mr. Sweet.

We'll go to Mr. Marston.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today. It's very much appreciated.

In the organized crime relative to the drug trade, is there a visible connection to the police? Witnesses we've had here before have actually told us that the military was closer to the people than the police forces were.

Going back to the drug trade, are the police controlled by any gangs, or are they like a gang of their own?

[Neil Reeder]

I'm not really sure I'm in a position to comment formally on that kind of question. I can say that having just been in the eastern Caribbean a couple of weeks ago, I was told by governments in the eastern Caribbean that there was a major flow of Andean-origin cocaine transiting Venezuela and going up into the eastern Caribbean to North America or to Europe, and they suggested there was some collusion between the local authorities and the traffickers in the case of Venezuela.

But I'm telling you basically what I was told by academics and experts and police authorities. Not being on the ground, I really can't say what the degree of affinity is between them within the country. But we clearly see a trend of concern in that respect.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

The judicial system there, as you've indicated, is failing. Would you put the onus for that on the judges themselves or on the support system? Is it a lack of training? Is it a lack of understanding? Is it a lack of commitment?

[Neil Reeder]

Well, sir, I suspect it's probably a bit of both. The judiciary may not be as professional as we would want, but bearing in mind the orientation of the government as well, it would put as much or more weight on political loyalty and support of the Chavez doctrine as it would on professional standards. So you may have people who rise in certain institutions, including the judiciary, because of loyalty to the leader, because of their devotion to the party, rather than on the basis of their judicial expertise and skills. That may lead to people being beyond their means, beyond their level. They're there because of loyalty.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

When you started your remarks, you were talking about improvements over the last regime that was there. It's almost a division. It sounds as if there's a loss of political force for the people, for lack of a better term. It was hyped in the beginning that they had their constitution and everything was wonderful. Now it sounds as if the regime has hardened over here, yet on the other side they're delivering at a health level, at a food source level, all of those types of things.

Do you see that separation?

[Neil Reeder]

I don't have the numbers in terms of the petro-economy and the kinds of revenue that are being produced through that industry, but this is primarily a petro-economy, and they really don't produce much else in Venezuela. So as a result, with that money filtering down, as we've seen in terms of the impact on rates of absolute poverty, there has been progress, and one recognizes that. Again, given the scope of the production of oil, the cost of the barrels of oil and such, you can see considerable potential to raise the living levels, particularly of the poorest of the poor, but we also have concerns, as I said, about reducing democratic space, lack of opportunities for non-governmental organizations, the whole political environment. I mentioned a couple of cases in particular. That continues to be a preoccupation for us.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Compared to the last regime, is this worse or better?

[Neil Reeder]

The last regime. Do you mean, sir, in terms of...?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Before Chavez.

[Neil Reeder]

I suppose if you looked at some of the key economic socio-indicators, you'd have to say things are better in that respect. I'm looking at the FAO numbers, for example. That's fine. That would be expected I think in an economy that has such a tremendous flow of revenues generated by oil.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

A lot of Canadian dollars buy that oil.

[Neil Reeder]

That's true.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Your time is up.

I just took the time while we were chatting earlier to look on Wikipedia, which we all know is an unimpeachable source for absolutely everything. The Venezuelan murder rate last year was 67 homicides per 100,000, which is the fourth highest in the world and three times as high as the South American or Caribbean average. To compare that with Canada's, our murder rate is 1.62 per 100,000, so it's almost 20 times as high as Canada's.

Mr. Hiebert, you're next.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Reeder, you mentioned in your opening remarks that in the fall of 2010 the Chavez government introduced the enabling law that gave them executive power for 18 months. Is that enabling law still in place?

[Neil Reeder]

Yes, it is.