Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 27th, 2012

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Excuse me, Doctor; I'm going to have to get in here.

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

In so far as they prove themselves committed members of the organization ideologically, they continue to be card-carrying members of the IRGC long after they have abandoned the uniform. In view of this fact, they should be targeted.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Doctor, I have to jump in here. Can you hear me, Doctor? I'm sorry, but you're a minute over on Mr. Cotler's time.

Can you hear us, Doctor?

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

I do want to make a point, though, that whether this route is practical, at least we should consider the fact—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

I'm sorry, Doctor, I have to interrupt you.

This is Wayne Marston, the vice-chair.

At this point we have to move to Ms. Péclet.

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

They should not be allowed to move about as if they were leaders of the free world, and should be constantly subject to chastisement, isolation, and condemnation when they visit foreign countries.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Thank you, Doctor.

We'll move to Madame Péclet.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My question will not be very long. I would like to know if you are in a position to comment on the labour rights situation in Iran. As a militant member of Amnesty International, I know that there are several problems in Iran concerning the Tehran bus drivers' union. Even in Canada, these are fundamental rights that the NDP fiercely defends. At this very time, some workers are demonstrating because the government is refusing to help them, and we have several problems.

I would simply like an update on the fundamental right to freely associate, and the situation of union delegates in that country.

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

Thank you for your question.

There are significant restrictions inside Iran with regard to the freedom of association that apply to political parties and other civil society organizations.

In the specific instance of labour rights, there are no legal independent unions inside the country. There is no minimum wage guaranteed to workers and there are practices in terms of hiring and firing workers on short-term contracts to ensure they can be employed under the minimum wage, which I think would make even the most rampant, turn-of-the-20th-century, unfettered capitalists ashamed of themselves.

Iran portrays itself as the country that stands for the oppressed, and yet its workers are among the most oppressed and least free on the face of the earth. I think this should encourage trade unions in the west and workers' organizations and governments within the context of the International Labour Organization to go after Iran for its blatant and systematic violations of workers' rights.

As you mentioned, a number of these workers and their leaders have been jailed, harassed, intimidated, and persecuted. In a number of cases, despite the fact that these people are prisoners of conscience and political prisoners, they have been transferred to either psychiatric mental health institutions or prisons where common criminals are detained, things that of course increase the risks and the dangers for their own personal safety.

They have been denied access to basic medical care, as often happens with political prisoners inside Iran. And they have been denied the most elemental rights, such as visits from relatives, in order to put pressure and intimidate their colleagues who are still at liberty to act.

I think in the landscape of human rights violations, labour rights is one of the most egregious instances where the regime has trumped basic rights, and has done so not just in a blatant fashion, but in utter disregard and in open contradiction with its own rhetoric.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Doctor, I'd like to ask you a little about a statement you made before regarding the fact that the Canadian government should pay attention to Iranian companies that are operating within Canada. Would you like to expand on your concerns a bit?

Before you do so, sir, you mentioned that you had recommendations for us, but you didn't have time to read them. If you'd like to send them to the clerk here electronically following the meeting, we'd certainly look at them.

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

I actually have done so already before coming to this session, so hopefully they will be available to you after we end our conversation.

The answer to your question about companies is something I would like to follow up on with perhaps some written submissions. Because Iran has diplomatic relations with Canada, and you do cherish open relations with individuals who apparently pose no threat, and because Canada has a thriving energy industry, you have a significant presence of Iranians in your country. Some of them have come with perfectly innocent intentions, some of them haven't.

You have had, in the past, the presence of people working in Alberta with the oil industry, who listed on their open CV on the Internet past affiliations with IRGC-linked entities in Iran. At least a number of Iranian companies have established procurement companies or subsidiaries that are incorporated under Canadian law, sometimes run by Canadian citizens, that can be traced back to Iran.

I do not have any hard evidence that these companies have been engaged in clear violations of the sanctions regime, but I think it deserves some scrutiny, given their connections, given that in some cases—I have at least one case in mind—these connections have been blurred or wilfully denied or removed. The fact that companies are operating within the Canadian jurisdiction, linked to Iranian companies, but denying that connection I think is suspect and deserves your attention. And I would be happy to provide the kind of information that would help to prove that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Thank you, Doctor.

The Conservatives have three minutes left.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

Dr. Ottolenghi, on March 12, 2012, the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Iran presented his report to the United Nations Human Rights Council. The report cites numerous human rights violations, including violations of the rights of women, unions, prisoners of conscience, religious minorities, journalists, and ethnic minorities. The mandate of the special rapporteur has recently been extended for another year, I think.

In your opinion, what is the significance of this report, and how can the international community use these findings to advocate for a stronger adherence to international human rights standards?

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

The first point I would like to make is that the significance of this report is the report itself. The United Nations does not have an illustrious and consistent record of shedding light on human rights violations by repressive regimes. It has oftentimes focused in a petty fashion on criticizing and demonizing the imperfections of western democracies. The fact that the focus of international attention is now on Iran and its human rights record is significant in and of itself. The fact that the mandate has been extended for another year will ensure that the record of the regime will remain in the spotlight.

One thing that should be done to build on this report is to use forums like your Parliament and similar institutions, as well as your roles as members of Parliament, to amplify the findings of the report and bring them to the attention of western audiences. One of the most difficult battles we have in confronting Iran is that there is very little awareness in the west. Perhaps in Canada that is less so, because sadly you've had individual cases of Canadian citizens who have been the victims of Iranian repression. But elsewhere in the west there isn't much awareness of how repressive this regime is. Enhancing the understanding of such a thing would help to demonstrate why Iran has been the subject of such a harsh sanction regime and why there is so much concern about its nuclear programs. So that is extremely important.

The second point I would make is that the Iranian regime does not like to be embarrassed. The Iranian regime has been aggressively seeking to gain a more active and influential role in a number of international forums, including the UN forums that deal directly with human rights. It is seeking a role in places like UNESCO. To have a report produced by the UN itself that proves beyond doubt the extent of human rights violations conducted by this regime inside Iran against its own people will serve as a useful tool for western diplomacies in trying to undermine Iran's efforts to gain legitimacy through seating in influential positions in international forums. It would help isolate the regime. It would help put pressure on the regime and make the regime feel more vulnerable. To prove its legitimacy, the regime has used the ability of its leaders to travel, to obtain audiences, to be heard, and to be in the international spotlight. Reversing the trend is extremely important and useful in the effort to isolate the regime.

I think we can take that report and build on it significantly.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Thank you, Doctor.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for being patient with me.

Our foreign affairs minister has publicly stated his resistance to labelling the Revolutionary Guards as a terrorist organization. Believe me, nobody has more loathing for that group and what they do to their own people than I do. Young people are conscripted who don't have any dedication to the regime but out of fear for their lives go along with their conscription. That's my concern.

Could you speak to that as far as labelling them as a terrorist organization?

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

Absolutely. My point was that such people who would be drawn into the IRGC because of necessity or against their own choice would soon drop out of the IRGC. They would serve their time in the IRGC, one or two years, and then they would leave. But the IRGC, as an organization, prizes loyalty and keeps its members close even after their military service has long passed its duration. People remain on the payroll of the IRGC, if they are loyal, long after they have abandoned the uniform. People who are loyal to the IRGC as conscripts will continue on to universities that are run by the IRGC and will then enter professions through companies controlled or owned by the IRGC, so it is against these people and this infrastructure that sanctions should be adopted and designation should be adopted.

The people who spend their two years of army service in the IRGC and then eventually move on and leave the IRGC would not suffer from these kinds of measures unless they were being sent abroad to engage in activities during their military service, but again, those people who do tend to be loyalists tend to be ideologically committed and are not usually sent abroad for benign purposes.

With that in mind, although in theory the distinction is very understandable, in practice it is much less relevant.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

The problem, Mr. Chair, is that once you name a group a terrorist organization and someone has any affiliation at all, the person lives with that for the rest of his life.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

I agree with you on that.

Doctor, we have reached the end of our time. In fact, we are a little bit past our time. We have to return to the House.

I want to thank you for your fulsome testimony here today. We certainly appreciate your coming before this committee. Thank you very much, sir.

[Dr. Emanuele Ottolenghi]

Thank you for having me.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

The meeting is now adjourned.