Evidence of meeting #62 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William Browder  Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management
Vladimir Kara-Murza  Member, Coordinating Council of the Russian Opposition
Gary Schellenberger  Perth—Wellington, CPC

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Today is December 11, 2012. Welcome to the 62nd meeting of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

We are televised today, and we are returning to a study we looked at some time ago regarding the case of Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian executive who, as you may recall, was murdered. Returning to give us an update on this matter is William Browder, the CEO of Hermitage Capital Management. Also attending today is Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is a member of the Coordinating Council of the Russian Opposition.

Gentlemen, we've discussed your testimony, and you know that either of you may begin, so I invite you to begin speaking.

Thank you.

1:05 p.m.

William Browder Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee on human rights, for inviting me here today.

For those of you who don't know the story, I'd like to briefly repeat the story of Sergei Magnitsky. Then I'll tell you what has happened since the last time I testified here in front of the subcommittee.

The story starts out more than 15 years ago, when I moved to Russia to set up Hermitage Capital Management, which became the largest foreign investment firm in Russia. When I was there, I discovered that the companies in which I was investing in the Russian stock market were essentially being robbed. Billions of dollars were being stolen from these companies.

I decided to try to fight the corruption by researching how it was done and then exposing it through the mass media. As you can imagine, doing such a thing didn't create that many friends. In November 2005 I was expelled from the country and declared a threat to national security.

In 2007 police officers raided my Moscow office, seized all of our corporate documents, and then used those documents, through a complicated scheme, to steal $230 million of taxes that we had paid to the Russian government the previous year. It wasn't our money that was stolen. It was Russian government money that was stolen.

It was a very complicated and legally unpleasant experience, so we went out and hired a number of lawyers, including a lawyer named Sergei Magnitsky, who was 36 years old and worked for an American law firm at the time. He was, in my opinion, one of the smartest and most diligent lawyers in Moscow. He went out to investigate the situation and the crime. He came back with evidence and clear proof that government officials were involved in this enormous $230 million tax theft.

Instead of turning a blind eye, as many others would have done at the time, Sergei Magnitsky decided to testify against the officials who were involved. He testified in July of 2008, and again in October of 2008. One month later, on November 24, 2008, two subordinates of one of the police officers he testified against came to his home at 8 in the morning, in front of his wife and two children, arrested him, and put him in pretrial detention.

While he was in pretrial detention, he was tortured to get him to withdraw his testimony. His jailers put him in a cell with fourteen inmates and eight beds, and left the lights on 24 hours a day to impose sleep deprivation. They put him in a cell with no heat and no windowpanes in December in Moscow, and he nearly froze to death. They put him in a cell with no toilet, just a hole in the floor where the sewage would bubble up.

After six months of this treatment, his health started to break down. He lost 40 pounds, developed severe stomach pains, and was diagnosed as having pancreatitis and gallstones. He needed an operation, which was prescribed on the first of August in 2009.

One week before the scheduled operation, he was abruptly moved away from the prison that had medical facilities to a prison called Butyrka, which is a maximum-security prison and widely considered to be one of the toughest prisons in Russia. Most significantly for Sergei, at Butyrka they had no proper medical facilities to treat his ailment.

At Butyrka his health completely broke down. He went into constant, agonizing, unbearable pain. He and his lawyers made 20 desperate official requests for medical attention. In spite of his pleas, every single one of his requests was either ignored or denied.

Finally his body succumbed. On the night of November 16, he went into critical condition. On that night, the prison officials decided to move him back to a prison with medical facilities. He was transferred to Matrosskaya Tishina prison that night, but when he arrived there, instead of being treated in the emergency room, he was put into an isolation cell and eight riot guards with rubber batons beat him for one hour and 18 minutes. He was subsequently found dead on the floor of that cell on the night of November 16, 2009, more than three years ago.

How do we know all this? We know it because in Sergei’s 358 days in detention, he wrote 450 complaints detailing every aspect of how he was tortured: what they did to him, who did it, where they did it, and how they did it.

Because of these documents, he created an unbelievably detailed record of what happened to him. In conjunction with that, after his death, we've confronted on a legal basis the Russian law enforcement system, and from that we've been able to glean lots of other documents supporting and proving all the things that he said had happened to him.

As a result of the documents he created and the documents that have come out of the Russian justice system, we have what I would consider to be the most well-documented human rights abuse case that has come out of Russia in the last 25 years. Because of all this information, there have now been, since he died, 39,000 articles in the Russian press mentioning the name Sergei Magnitsky.

Now, everything that I've told you is appalling—you can't not be appalled by it—but what makes this story truly significant on an international political level is not the actual crime they committed, but what happened afterwards. And what happened afterwards is a high-level government cover-up that goes right up to the President of Russia.

It's kind of like Watergate. It wasn't the break-in that made that crime so significant. It was the cover-up that led to the resignation of the President of America at the time.

Just to give you some idea of the cover-up, one day after Sergei died, the Russian interior ministry announced that Sergei had never complained about his health and that he died of natural causes, with no signs of violence, even though in looking at any pictures from the autopsy report you can see that his arms, wrists, and knees are black and blue.

Every single one of the police officers, judges, jailers, and members of the security service involved in this case have been formally exonerated. Some have even been promoted and granted state honours. As if that wasn't enough, to add insult to injury, they're now taking Sergei to court more than two years after his death and prosecuting him in the very first posthumous prosecution in Russian history. They're putting a dead man on trial. And if that wasn't enough, the same officials who killed Sergei are now summoning his grieving mother and wife as witnesses in the case against their dead son and husband.

Given these circumstances, it is clear that no justice is possible inside Russia, so his family and I have sought justice outside of Russia. In 2010 I was invited to testify in front of the U.S. Congress to tell the story of Sergei Magnitsky. Following my testimony, Senator Benjamin Cardin, the co-chair of the U.S. Helsinki Commission, and representative Jim McGovern, co-chair of the Lantos House Human Rights Commission, proposed an initiative to withdraw the U.S. visas of the 60 officials identified as playing a role in the Sergei Magnitsky case. We couldn't necessarily force the Russian government to prosecute his killers, but they certainly didn't have the right to enter the U.S.

On November 15, 2012, with an unprecedented bipartisanship, the U.S. House of Representatives voted in favour of passing the Magnitsky Act by 365 to 43. The U.S. Senate voted last Thursday, passing the Magnitsky Act by 92 to 4. The Magnitsky Act freezes assets, bans visas, and names names of the people who killed Sergei Magnitsky. Broader than that, it bans visas, freezes assets, and names names of people who perpetrate other human rights abuses in Russia.

Since the Magnitsky Act was proposed, 11 parliaments around the world, including this Parliament, have introduced motions, resolutions, petitions, and legislation that have called for visa sanctions and asset freezes on the people who killed Sergei Magnitsky, as well as others who perpetrate gross human rights abuses in Russia. Resolutions calling for visa bans and asset freezes have also been passed in the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, and the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly.

There is only one group of people in the world that is against this legislation, and that is the Russian regime itself. They're absolutely terrified that this would possibly come into force. Until now, they've lived in a world where they can commit human rights abuses with no consequence, since they control their own justice system, and they know that they can torture and kill with full knowledge that nothing will happen to them. In many ways, they cannot control their own system if they cannot guarantee impunity for the foot soldiers who commit these crimes.

The Russian hierarchy, after initially dismissing such threats of sanctions, is now so terrified of the repercussions of this legislation that three days after President Putin was re-inaugurated he announced that his third most important foreign policy priority was to fight Magnitsky sanctions. He assigned his foreign minister to publicly threaten any country that considered passing Magnitsky sanctions.

In an unprecedented move, members of the Russian parliament were actually sent to Washington to slander Sergei Magnitsky and to try to talk Congress out of passing the Magnitsky Act, which they failed at.

I am here today to urge you, the members of the Canadian House of Commons, to follow the lead of the U.S. Congress and join parliamentarians across Europe and deny visas to and place asset freezes on the people who played a part in the false arrest, torture, denial of medical care, and death of Sergei Magnitsky, and on those who took part in the cover-up of this thing. They should not be able to come to Canada freely, and they should not be able to buy properties here or take holidays here and enjoy the fruits of their blood money here.

Thank you very much.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you, Mr. Browder.

Mr. Kara-Murza, I'd like you to begin.

December 11th, 2012 / 1:15 p.m.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Member, Coordinating Council of the Russian Opposition

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Messrs. Vice-Chairmen, honourable members of the subcommittee. Thank you very much for holding this timely and important meeting today and for the opportunity to appear before you.

The tragic story of Sergei Magnitsky, whose only “crime” was to stand against corruption, is unfortunately symptomatic of the general situation in Vladimir Putin's Russia, where state-sanctioned theft and extortion, politically motivated prosecutions, wrongful imprisonment, police abuse, media censorship, suppression of peaceful assembly, and electoral fraud have become the norm. According to the World Bank, corruption now engulfs 48% of the entire Russian economy. During Mr. Putin's rule, his close entourage came to control large sectors of the economy, most notably the energy sector, and the president's personal friends have become, in dollar terms, billionaires.

At the very same time, the judicial and legislative branches were turned into rubber stamps. Many of those who refused to toe the line ended up in prison—suffice it to mention Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Independent television channels were shut down, opposition rallies were repeatedly dispersed by force, and elections were routinely falsified. No Russian vote has been judged free and fair by either the OSCE or the Council of Europe since the year 2000.

The tragic story of Sergei Magnitsky, whose only crime was to stand against corruption, is unfortunately symptomatic of the general situation in Vladimir Putin's Russia, where state-sanctioned extortion and theft, political persecution, wrongful imprisonment, police abuse, media censorship, suppression of peaceful assembly and electoral fraud have become the norm.

If that is possible, the situation in our country is growing worse. Just in the last few months, Mr. Putin has signed a barrage of new repressive laws. The fines for “violations” during public street rallies were increased to $10,000. That is ten times Russia's average monthly salary, and of course it is the authorities who decide what constitutes a violation. Non-governmental organizations that accept funding from abroad are being forced to tag themselves as “foreign agents”, and this includes such reputable human rights groups as Memorial, founded by Andrei Sakharov, while the definition of “high treason” in the penal code, which is punishable by up to 20 years in jail, has been broadened to such an extent that it can include almost any contact with a foreign country, a foreign organization, or an international organization.

Police also this year conducted raids on the homes of leading opposition figures, including former Russian Deputy Prime Minister Boris Nemtsov, who was a guest here at this Parliament just a few months ago. Opposition leaders, such as Alexei Navalny and Sergei Udaltsov, found themselves under criminal investigation. Perhaps most incredibly, a Russian opposition activist, Leonid Razvozzhayev, was recently kidnapped on the sovereign territory of Ukraine, forcibly brought back to Russia, and tortured into “confessing his guilt”.

Needless to say, there are no domestic legal mechanisms for Russian citizens to defend themselves against such abuses. Fortunately, there are international norms. The Moscow document of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, OSCE, to which both Russia and Canada are parties, explicitly states that, “issues relating to human rights, fundamental freedoms, democracy and the rule of law...are matters of direct and legitimate concern to all participating States and do not belong exclusively to the internal affairs of the State concerned.”

It is no secret that a great number of Russian officials, while preferring the style of governance of Zimbabwe or Belarus at home, are choosing the countries of North America and western Europe when it comes to their bank deposits, their vacation homes, or schooling for their children. This double standard must end. It is time for some personal accountability for those who continue to violate the rights and plunder the resources of Russian citizens. The Russian opposition and civil society, as well as a strong plurality of Russian citizens, according to most recent opinion polls, back measures such as the Magnitsky Act, which was passed by the United States Congress last week. These are measures that introduce targeted visa sanctions and asset freezes on those implicated in the case of Sergei Magnitsky, as well as those implicated in other cases of gross violations of human rights in the Russian Federation, in particular, as the new American law mentions, the rights to freedom of association and assembly, fair trials, and democratic elections.

It is no secret that a great number of Russian officials, while preferring the style of governance of Zimbabwe or Belarus at home, are choosing the countries of North America and western Europe when it comes to their bank accounts, their places of residence or schooling for their children.

This double standard must end. It is time for some personal accountability for those who continue to violate the rights and plunder the resources of Russian citizens.

A similar bill, Bill C-339, has been introduced in this House by the honourable member for Mount Royal, Mr. Cotler, a member of the subcommittee. In our view, in the view of the Russian opposition, this is a much needed and long overdue measure that deserves full attention, and it could be strengthened even further by including an asset freeze provision and by covering other human rights violations beyond those in the case of Sergei Magnitsky.

Mr. Chairman, one year ago this week, 100,000 people gathered on Bolotnaya Square in central Moscow, literally just across the river from the Kremlin walls, to demand free elections, the rule of law, the release of political prisoners, and democratic reforms. This was the start of the largest wave of pro-democracy demonstrations in Russia since the fall of communism in 1991.

Russia is changing, and the task of bringing this democratic change to our country is, of course, the task for us, the Russian opposition, and not for any outside players. But if the world's democratic nations, if our friends and allies here in the Canadian Parliament, want to show solidarity with the Russian people and want to stand up for the universal values of human rights, human dignity, and democracy, I think the best way to do it is to tell those crooks, those murderers, those abusers that they are not welcome in your country.

Thank you very much.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you, Mr. Kara-Murza.

Colleagues, we have exactly 36 minutes. We have six questioners, and therefore if we are very precise about it, we'll have time for six-minute rounds each. But I'll have to be quite strict in enforcing the six-minute cut-off to achieve that.

That being said, we begin with Ms. Grewal.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Chair.

My questions go to Mr. Browder.

Mr. Browder, thank you very much for appearing before our committee today to discuss the tragic death of Sergei Magnitsky.

I understand that you were prohibited from entering Russia in November 2005 because you were considered to be a threat to national security. Could you please explain why the Russian government banned you from the country?

1:25 p.m.

Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

William Browder

When I set up my investment fund in 1996, I was aware that Russia was a chaotic place, but I didn't realize how corrupt Russia was. I discovered that the companies I was investing in were having all the money stolen from them. Big companies like Gazprom, which you've probably heard of, were losing billions of dollars, in some cases many multiples of billion of dollars, from the company through corrupt schemes. I felt this was both a morally incorrect thing and a financially incorrect thing for anybody who had an interest in Gazprom, so we went out and started to do research on how they went about doing the stealing of the money.

We spent anywhere from three to six months, in different cases, doing what we call forensic research. We took that research and shared it with The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, The New York Times, Businessweek, etc., and the newspapers all published the stories, and then there were many more stories about that. As a result of that particular incident, the CEO of Gazprom was ultimately dismissed from his job because of this publicity.

We went out doing this in a number of other cases, and as a result of that we ended up infuriating people with very close links to the top of Russian government. Because of that, they ended up making a decision to expel me, and they used the national security provisions in their law to do that.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Are you currently under investigation in Russia, and if so, what are the charges against you?

1:25 p.m.

Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

William Browder

After I was expelled, our office was raided. After our office was raided, our companies were stolen. After our companies were stolen, we filed criminal complaints against the police officers involved in stealing the companies. The same police officers then, in February 2008, opened up a criminal case against me for tax evasion in 2001, purely in retaliation for our complaining about them. On the basis of that, they've run a criminal case against me. It was the same criminal case that they then used to arrest Sergei Magnitsky, even though he had nothing to do with the companies that supposedly had evaded taxes, and because of that, he ended up dying in prison.

The posthumous case against Sergei Magnitsky is also a case in which I'm going to be tried. He's going to be tried as a dead man. I'm going to be tried in absentia some time in the next month or two in Russia.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

How profitable was Hermitage Capital Management during its time in Russia?

1:25 p.m.

Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

William Browder

Hermitage Capital Management was extremely profitable. If you had invested at the beginning of our fund, depending on what time you invested, you would have made hundreds if not thousands of per cent on your investment in our fund.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

I see.

Officially Mr. Magnitsky died of heart failure. What evidence do you have to suggest that this was not the case and that he was murdered?

1:25 p.m.

Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

William Browder

The Moscow Public Oversight Commission, which is an independent body of prison overseers, as well as the president's human rights council, which is the human rights council that reports to the president, did an independent investigation, and both concluded that he was tortured in prison, that his right to life was violated, that he was beaten before his death, that he probably died as a result of his beating, and that he was left untreated for a number of very serious medical ailments when they were deliberately not providing treatment. It's not me saying it. All sorts of independent bodies are saying that.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Russian businessman Dmitry Klyuev, whom you have implicated in the death of Mr. Magnitsky, says he has absolutely no ties whatsoever with the late lawyer, and that the whole story is a massive public relations campaign on your part to clear your own name. How do you respond to this accusation?

1:30 p.m.

Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

William Browder

The role of Dmitry Klyuev in this crime is relatively well documented. He owned the bank that received the stolen money. He was also involved in working with the same lawyer who did all the fraudulent lawsuits. He was involved in a similar fraud when he was convicted of fraud, working with the same lawyer in previous times. A whole body of evidence proves his connection and his involvement in this thing. Obviously we don't have time to litigate Dmitry Klyuev's involvement here, but with the evidence we have, we believe he's deeply implicated in this crime.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Officers from Russia's interior ministry are alleged to have engaged in a massive controversy against Hermitage. Would you explain this a little?

1:30 p.m.

Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hermitage Capital Management

William Browder

The officers of the interior ministry were the ones who raided our office. They seized the documents from our office, and the documents were used in the fraud to re-register our company out of our name into the name of a man who had been convicted of murder and let out of jail early. The documents were in the possession of the interior ministry when they were used for the fraud. The documents were also used to fabricate a billion dollars of fake, backdated contracts, which were then used to perpetrate the fraud, and those unique documents, which were seized and in the custody of the interior ministry, were used for both parts of the fraud. So by any sort of objective measurement, which was then confirmed by other independent bodies, the interior ministry was deeply implicated in this whole mess.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

I have a very short question.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

I'm afraid you're substantially over your time.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

It's very short.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

It doesn't change the fact that you're over your time. You're going to have to give it to Mr. Sweet, perhaps.

We have to go to our next questioner, and, Mr. Marston, that would be you.

1:30 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

We were having a little discussion back there, because normally when we think in terms of sanctions and refusing entry to folks, it is usually in cases where there's a huge situation within the country. What you're telling us is indicating it's there, that the human rights violations are across the country. Normally we have broader evidence before us.

Now, we've looked at this situation before. We've already agreed in our motion before....

What is striking for me.... When Putin returned, did things ratchet up? Did the problems increase at that time?

1:30 p.m.

Member, Coordinating Council of the Russian Opposition

Vladimir Kara-Murza

Who is this for?

1:30 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

It's for either one of you.

1:30 p.m.

Member, Coordinating Council of the Russian Opposition

Vladimir Kara-Murza

The biggest fear of Mr. Putin since 2004, when the Ukrainian Orange Revolution happened, was the repeat of a similar scenario in Russia. That's why he created Nashi, which translates as “Ours”. It was a pro-Kremlin youth organization designed to control the streets, to keep the opposition from the streets, and to harass human rights activists and opposition supporters. But of course for all the efforts they put into this, they failed, because over the past year we've seen tens of thousands of Russian citizens coming out on the streets in the biggest cities, especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg, to protest against the corrupt and authoritarian regime of Mr. Putin and to demand democratic rights and a civic dignity, essentially. Exactly the scenario that they feared began to be realized a year ago. In fact, a year ago yesterday was the first large demonstration.

Their initial reaction was to offer concessions. You will recall they reinstated gubernatorial elections, which they had previously abolished. They eased requirements for presidential candidates to register for the ballot and they eased requirements to register new political parties. That was their initial reaction, because they were really genuinely afraid in December 2011. It was really sudden for them. They had gotten used to essentially apathy and public indifference over the previous decade, but any autocratic regime passes that line between indifference and indignation, and Putin passed that line a year ago and people came out on the street.

What they have been trying to do in the past few months, as I touched on in the opening statement, is to increase repression in the hope of driving up fear and driving the opposition movement down with these new laws, with the massive beatings, for instance, of demonstrators during the protest against Putin's inauguration in May, when more than 1,000 people were detained and 50 people were beaten over two days.