Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Jan. 29th, 2013

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for permitting me to substitute in the subcommittee on human rights.

Welcome to our guests.

I am the member of Parliament for Parkdale—High Park, which is home to the largest Tibetan community in Canada. One thing I'm well aware of is that the vast majority of those members of the Tibetan Canadian community have come here as refugees. I've heard many stories in addition to what our witnesses have said today about human rights violations. It is an issue of great concern to me as a member of Parliament and to our community, and I believe it is a matter that should be of concern to all in our country.

Mr. Sweet and I are members of the Parliamentary Friends of Tibet committee. Mr. Sweet is the chair. I'm the vice-chair. It is a committee that has been very active. Last year, under the leadership of Senator Di Nino, we hosted here in Canada an international parliamentary conference on Tibet, and parliamentarians came from around the world.

It's an issue that Canada has been very active on. We also voted unanimously, I believe in 2006—I could be wrong—to make His Holiness the Dalai Lama an honorary Canadian citizen, something of which we are very proud. That has been the kind of activity we've had here.

However, recently Canada signed the Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement with China, the FIPA, and we have been developing a closer trading relationship with China.

My question is twofold. First, do you think the Canadian government is doing enough to speak out against the human rights violations in Tibet? Second, what role can Canada play to help open negotiations between representatives from the Tibetan community and the Chinese government to help resolve the ongoing situation in Tibet?

Those are my two questions. Are we doing enough? What could we do to help the dialogue?

[Dhondup Lhadar]

I'd like to say that there is a strong ongoing support from the Canadian government in terms of the Tibet issue. His Holiness has been awarded an honorary citizenship. Also, on behalf of all the Tibetans, I'd like to say thank you to the Canadian government for also allowing Tibetans to reside in Canada and call it home. A few days ago, the foreign affairs committee actually signed a five-point agreement on the Tibet issue, and we'd like to thank you for that as well.

Up until now there have been about 99 self-immolators in Tibet, and I'd like to request that the Canadian government consider their hopes and aspirations and the reason these people have self-immolated. I also urge Parliament to actually issue a statement and also allow media inside Tibet to look into situations that are arising in Tibet and to force China to stop the repressive policy against Tibetan people in Tibet.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Excuse me; we're done for this round. We're a minute past the time for that particular question.

We have to go now to a government member.

Go ahead, Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their time.

It is very sad to sit here and listen to your horrific stories, and my heart goes out to all of you. Nobody should go through this. All human beings in this world should enjoy human rights. That's a basic right, and no human rights should be violated anywhere in the world.

Speaking on our government's record, I would like to say that our Prime Minister was the first prime minister to meet the Dalai Lama in his Hill office. The Prime Minister spoke out on human rights repeatedly when he was in China, so much so that he was attacked in the Chinese media. Minister Kenney, the minister of immigration, was a key speaker defending Tibet at last year's international convention. Minister Baird recently spoke out on Tibet as well.

A significant increase in surveillance and Chinese intervention has been reported with regard to Tibet's religious freedom. This includes the presence of state officials within monasteries and nunneries. What effect does this have on the religious freedom of monks and nuns and religious people in Tibet?

My second question is a very short one. In 2009, Canada participated in China's first universal periodic review. We made several recommendations on the subjects of judicial reform and the protection of human rights, one of which was accepted there. With the second periodic universal review coming up, do you feel that China has improved in these areas? What do you anticipate for this universal review report? Could you please comment on this?

Thank you.

[Tsewang Dhondup]

I'd like to respond to the first question.

I'd like to speak to the hearts and minds of the monks and nuns inside the monasteries and the people living inside Tibet. I myself am the evidence. I'm a recent escapee from Tibet. It's unimaginable that basic human rights have been snatched away. It almost appears that we are actually living in a cell. Everywhere you go it's guarded. Each and every Tibetan that I could speak of is probably feeling as though they are imprisoned for their lives. There's no way out.

The sole purpose of having a monastery inside Tibet is to actually educate on religious freedom, but there are cameras all over the monastery.We Tibetans do not have even the same rights as a wild animal living in the mountains.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Excuse me; I'm sorry, but the time has now elapsed. We're another minute over, and I have to go to Professor Cotler. I'm sure you'll be able to get your points in there.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I also would like to thank the witnesses.

I want to address my question to you, Mr. Lhadar, because my question flows out of your testimony.

You made certain specific suggestions and recommendations as to what we might do. One is to send a fact-finding parliamentary delegation into Tibet. If we could do that, I think it would be an important initiative.

The next is to issue a statement and pass a resolution in the Canadian Parliament on the matters, as you've suggested.

Then, in referring to the Canadian companies doing business with China, you made reference to the Nexen-CNOOC deal, the takeover by a Chinese state enterprise, CNOOC, of Nexen here in Canada.

Do you believe that type of arrangement is, in effect, as you put it, “indirectly funding” the PRC's human rights abuses and undermining the Tibetan cause?

[Dhondup Lhadar]

The reason I requested a fact-finding delegation into Tibet is that the media are restricted from actually entering. Not only the self-immolators but also the family members have been arrested and punished. The self-immolators are now forced, since there is no other way, to consume poison or jump into the river. Those at monasteries are also being stopped. They are even unable to listen to the media, such as Voice of America and Radio Free Asia.

I would also like to say that there are a lot of mining companies established in Tibet, and they're further damaging the environment. The residents where the mining is happening are even forced to remain without their agreement.

We therefore urge the Canadian Parliament to propagate basic human rights in Tibet and help further develop the exercise of basic human rights in Tibet.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

That's the limit of Mr. Cotler's time.

Mr. Schellenberger is next.

[Gary Schellenberger, Perth—Wellington, CPC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

From your presentations that I've heard so far, it seems that setting yourself on fire has not necessarily worked. When you protest, you want a positive result. It's my assessment that China does not care about this type of protest. Would there not be a better way to protest? That's one thing.

Here are my questions. What has been the response of Chinese authorities to the self-immolations? What is your assessment of this response? Also, what minimum steps would you like to see China take in order to address the problem of self-immolation?

[Tsewang Dhondup]

I'd like to pledge before the subcommittee and request... The situation is desperate in Tibet. Tibet continues to suffer against the repressive Chinese policies and occupation. I'd like to pledge that if the Canadian Parliament and each country in the world could investigate what is happening within Tibet.... As you see, China actually stopped issuing visas to tourists altogether, and they're not able to come in and look into the situation inside Tibet.

Tibetan people are very peaceful people. They do not wish to harm anybody. That's the reason there are a lot of self-immolations.

There are other ways to propagate our cause. One could be like the people in the world who have actually carried out terrorist acts and bombed a whole province or district. We Tibetans are very peaceful. We do not wish to do that. The only way to actually get the world to pledge to look into Tibet's situation is to take our own lives.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Perhaps I could just jump in at this moment.

Members, we're very close to our official adjournment. I would like us to extend by about seven minutes in order to allow Mr. Jacob to get his question in.

Do I have the acceptance of the committee? Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Jacob.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Lhadar.

In order to stop the phenomenon of self-immolation among Tibetans—

[Sherab Aathytsang]

I'm sorry; I do not understand French.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

You don't understand French.

[Sherab Aathytsang]

No.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

We're going to extend our meeting past our normal recess time to allow Mr. Jacob and the response.

Oh, she didn't have translation.

[Sherab Aathytsang]

I'm so sorry; the other witness would like to speak for one minute.

[Dhondup Lhadar]

The question asked previously is very important, and I wish to respond—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

No, excuse me, we're going to go to Mr. Jacob. He is going to put his question.

In the response to his question, if you'd like to add anything during that, we'd be glad to listen.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I will start over.

In order to stop the phenomenon of self-immolation among Tibetans, Chinese authorities arrest those who encourage others to carry out this act. Is that tactic really being used, and if so, when did it start?

And do the Chinese authorities use other tactics in order to stop the self-immolation phenomenon among Tibetans?

[Sherab Aathytsang]

Can you repeat the question?

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Do the Chinese authorities use other tactics in order to stop the self-immolation phenomenon among Tibetans?

[Dhondup Lhadar]

Among the tactics that the Chinese government uses to stop self-immolation in Tibet, they provide awards to the friends and families who they blame for actually helping sacrifice those lives.

In order to stop the self-immolations that occur in Tibet, they should look into the reasons these activities are carried out.

For example, there is Tulku Sopa Rinpoche, who self-immolated, and the disciple Namkha Jigme, who has been imprisoned for trying to advocate and let the world know about the self-immolation and the reason to carry on this activity. Also, there are the cases of Tenzin Wangmo, who also self-immolated, and of Lho Yonten Gyamtsho, who tried to let the world know about the reasons she had carried on this activity and who has been imprisoned for about seven years. Her whereabouts are unknown as well.

As an example, this picture that I am holding is Tsering Kyi. She set herself on fire. She was a young student. The family members tried to obtain the dead body, but China basically confiscated the dead body and said that if they wished to receive the body, they would have to sign an agreement that they would like to go against the wishes of His Holiness and that her self-immolation had nothing to do with the political situation inside Tibet. The family did not agree to that, especially the mother.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

This is the time in the meeting that is most difficult for the chair, because our time has expired.