Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

You have to question whether that's benign neglect, and it's to their advantage not to know. Again, I don't want to make accusations here, because it's a very, very difficult place to function. From the standpoint of a committee of Parliament, if we're trying to look at where we can go to influence a situation like that, obviously Canadian companies would be one of the places that we could start. And in fact, because of suggestions in Parliament about a corporate social responsibility act—I think it was Bill C-300, if I remember correctly, that people tried to get through here—at least it drew attention to the fact that our companies do have a social responsibility when they're in these other countries.

It's very important to us that your organization provides us with this kind of counter-perspective of what's happening. In your organization's dealings in that country, what are your opportunities to actually explore what's happening there? I can't imagine you having very much freedom.

[Felix Horne]

It's very, very challenging. It is the most difficult environment in Africa to do human rights research of any sort. Like many organizations, we don't have access to the ground, so a lot of individuals we interview are located outside of Eritrea, people who have fled national service. There are many, many refugees who have fled Eritrea's national service program. There are many of them here in Canada, and many of them here in Ottawa, so we speak to them and we use sort of creative means to try to corroborate some of the testimony and evidence that we hear.

At the end of the day, it's very difficult to find accurate information on what happens in Eritrea. There's no civil society, there's no independent media whatsoever. Yes, it's very, very difficult.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Among the witnesses you talk about being in Canada, would there be anybody you think who would be worth having testify at our hearings?

[Felix Horne]

Certainly I'm sure there are individuals who might be willing to testify about national service and some of the typical sort of violations that individuals face in the national service program. One of the things about Eritrea, though, is that Eritreans outside of Eritrea are also very afraid to speak. The Eritrean government typically targets their family members back home. If you flee national service, there's a series of penalties incurred by your family members. So it might be difficult to find somebody, but we can explore that.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

We might be better off going to information through organizations like yours in order to protect these individuals, but it was worth asking.

How's my time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Two more minutes for questions and answers.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Two minutes; well, that's going to prove interesting.

Are you aware of other companies in this country besides Canadian companies that are in like projects to Nevsun's, and how might they compare to Nevsun's approach? On the scale of comparison, are we doing reasonably well, at least? And if not, where would we have to ask them to move to, to really bring it up to where they should?

[Felix Horne]

It's difficult to answer because Nevsun is actually the first operational mine in Eritrea. The other two large companies are an Australian company, South Boulder, and then a Chinese company that recently bought out another Australian company. They're just at the very beginning of their processes. We hope that those two companies, along with the other Canadian company, Sunridge, begin to learn the lessons from Nevsun. It's difficult to say at this point because Nevsun really was the first.

Eritrea has had a very closed economy until it opened up recently for the mines.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Just by the productivity, you can see that they haven't evolved very well at all.

Mr. Chair, just to let you know, I have an S.O. 31, so I will have to leave very shortly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Shall I have the clerk give you a warning when we're getting close?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's okay. I have this on my BlackBerry.

We have to encourage people on BlackBerry, since they're a good Canadian company with good jobs and good pay, unlike ones that are made in China.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay. All right. By a happy coincidence, your time just ended.

We'll move now to Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Horne, for your time and your presentation.

Human Rights Watch has described Eritrea as one of the most repressive countries or regimes in the world, and it has garnered relatively little popular notice. Given the success of past rights awareness campaigns, what's stopping the situation in Eritrea from being high profile? What can be done to raise a little bit more awareness in the world?

[Felix Horne]

That's a very big question.

It's very difficult to get information on what's happening inside Eritrea, and Eritrea is under UN sanctions. A lot of the things that we would typically ask for have already been done. There is not a lot of private investment. There is not a lot of aid money flowing into the country, so it closes off a lot of traditional advocacy strategies.

One thing we're seeing, though, with the opening up of the mining sector, is that does provide some leverage not only for those corporations, but also for the governments where those corporations are housed, to begin to push Eritrea on reforms. Eritrea needs those mines operational as much as the corporations need those mines. It's handing the regime a financial lifeline that is critical.

The other thing, which has been discussed at this committee in the past, is the practice of Eritrean consulates and embassies around the world to collect taxes from its diaspora members. We haven't done any detailed research on that so we can't speak to specifics, but certainly there are lots of allegations about consular services being denied if you don't pay the 2% income tax along with other donations to national defence forces, etc. There are numerous allegations about families back in Eritrea being targeted when individuals refuse to pay the diaspora tax.

I think that certainly provides an opportunity for governments hosting Eritrean diplomatic relationships to begin to have a bit of sway. Certainly in Canada there is a consulate in Toronto.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Eritrea's national service is notable not only for its brutality but for its wide applicability. Eritreans are called not only to serve in the military but to take construction and civil service jobs as well, and they're extremely poorly paid. How does the government maintain such a massive kind of program that adversely affects so many people in their country?

[Felix Horne]

Yes, the national service program, the scale of it, is quite incredible. As I mentioned, it was originally conceived to last 18 months, but many people spend their entire lives in national service, and anyone who dares to flee or not participate is often jailed in very inhumane conditions. Torture is widespread. For a period of time there was a shoot-to-kill policy at the border for individuals fleeing Eritrea, often fleeing national service.

Family members of those who flee national service are targeted. There is no opportunity for conscientious objection on religious grounds or any other grounds, so it really is a program where no one has any choice, and even if you're lucky enough to get out of the program, to flee the country, your family members, your loved ones are targeted. It's very difficult.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Authoritarian and totalitarian regimes go to great lengths to repress dissent in every form. So Eritrea has no free press and restricts assembly. But are there any kind of significant dissident groups who speak against the regime? Are there groups of Eritreans who work for reform?

[Felix Horne]

There are many Eritrean diaspora groups located in Canada and elsewhere who openly speak out against the regime and try to push for political reform, for free and fair elections, for constitutional change, and for everything, but their ability to bring about change is quite limited.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Eritrea commonly uses the excuse of ongoing tensions and formal conflict with Ethiopia to postpone its elections or avoid expanding its international relations. So what are the prospects of improving Eritrea's relations with Ethiopia and the rest of the region?

[Felix Horne]

I think that's a very complicated question. Certainly Eritrea is under UN sanctions because of its support for al-Shabaab in Somalia. Eritrea has basically become the pariah of the international community and certainly of Africa. It does not have a lot of friends.

As for the relationship with Ethiopia, again, it's difficult to know exactly what is happening. It's complicated, nuanced. But certainly the Government of Eritrea uses the threat of Ethiopia as a justification for national service, and as you say, for not holding elections and for keeping up that constant state of fear that people live in.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Eritrea is very strict in its limits on religious practice and observance, so why does the Eritrean government see states as threatening and how have those organizations chosen to be legally dealt with under the burden of an invasive government? Could you say something about that?

[Felix Horne]

Again, we haven't done any recent detailed research on that, but in a nutshell I believe there are five religions that are allowed in Eritrea. All other religions are banned. Those who practise those religions are arrested and often tortured and told to denounce their faith. There have been a number of stories about Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, who have been tortured. The rest have been tortured solely because they refuse to renounce their faith. That's a huge concern, obviously.

Those individuals who belong to religions that don't want to participate in national service are not given the right to opt out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We have to move on. I know Ms. Grewal had another question. I'm going to try, if we can go through all of them, to come back to her.

I can tell you were working up to something that was important, but I have to respect the rotation.

Professor Cotler, you're next.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the witness for his testimony here. As you may recall in his appearance before our committee, the president and chief executive officer of Nevsun, Cliff Davis, testified that of the 1,194 Eritrean nationals employed at the Bisha site, 88% of the total employed there, are “there of their own free will”. He went on to say they received pay far above Eritrean standards, in addition to medical care, free food, and accommodation at the mine. When I asked Mr. Davis if he was aware of human rights violations in Eritrea, generally speaking, he said no.

When I asked him if he was ever advised about human rights violations in Eritrea by anyone, he said no. When I asked him if he was aware of human rights violations at the Bisha mine site, he said no. When I asked him if he was advised by anyone of human rights violations at the Bisha mine, he said no.

When I asked him, and I'm just summarizing, whether he had ever conveyed to the Eritrean government any concern of any kind about any human rights violation, his answer to me was, “I don't acknowledge the premise” of the question, “because that's a premise that is asserted by people outside of...our mine site and there are no human rights violations on our mine site.”

In the end, it was, in my view, a presentation, a testimony—and I trust I wasn't being unfair—that appeared to hear no evil, speak no evil, and see no evil. It's interesting that after the release of your report, Nevsun issued a statement on January 11 indicating that it had taken steps to prevent the use of forced labour by subcontractors at the Bisha mine site, but expressing regret that certain employees of Segen were conscripts four years ago.

Again, it seemed to me to disclaim accountability in that regard as well. My question to you now is this. First, do you think the appointment of a special rapporteur in this situation of human rights in Eritrea could have a positive impact on the situation of human rights in Eritrea? Is there anything that Canada can do to help support the special rapporteur?

Second, what specifically might Canadian parliamentarians be able to do to raise the profile of concern about human rights issues in Eritrea, whether we could engage effectively at all with the Government of Eritrea or other stakeholders in order to improve the human rights situation in Eritrea, generally, and with regard to mining, in particular?

[Felix Horne]

Certainly Eritrea's human rights record is not a surprise. If you google “Eritrea human rights”, you'll get a whole list of different things. So for him to say that he was not aware of human rights concerns in Eritrea generally, I don't accept that, unless he just doesn't want to know.

In terms of whether, on his mine site, there are human rights violations, he says no. I say he doesn't know. They've openly said that even though they put these procedures in place, they aren't allowed to visit the camp where these allegations were made. I would say that's a pretty significant gap.

Given that Canadian companies are now involved in Eritrea—Nevsun and Sunridge Gold, with a possibility of more—and given that the Eritrean government operates a consulate here where they collect a tax from the Eritrean Canadian citizens, which provides them a financial lifeline, I think the Government of Canada does have some leverage to engage with Eritrea and to push for an improvement of the human rights situation there.

Canada generously admits many Eritreans to Canada as refugees and many of those Eritreans are fleeing the very program that a Canadian company is profiting from. That causes me great concern.