Evidence of meeting #70 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coptic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
You would have to point out where I say “they”. If I'm talking within this context, in saying “they” I would refer probably either to extremists, or it could be the government. I don't know which "they" you're asking about.
Perth—Wellington, CPC
I can accept that. I can't remember which “they” it was, either.
Are you aware of any attacks on Coptic Christians and Coptic places of worship in Egypt since August 2012?
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
Yes. I actually mentioned one that happened last year. Also, there's a case of an attack in Dahshur, which started as a fight between a Copt and a Muslim and the latter was killed. The violence escalated until the Christians evacuated the village. Again, the Egyptian government, instead of applying the penal code for the violence, whether against the Copt or the Muslim, decided to go with an informal reconciliation. You seek the two heads of the two communities and sit down to discuss what that looks like.
There was also the incident of the Shoubra el-Kheima last November 5, when Muslims came to stop the reconstruction of the church there, and they were carrying firearms. Rather than upholding the penal code, again, the governor decided on having a reconciliatory process, which is of course much more informal and does not really support the upholding of the rule of law in Egypt.
NDP
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Sherif, thank you for appearing before the committee.
First, I'd like to know who the major groups and forces are within Egyptian society and political life that incite hatred towards Christians or other religious minorities.
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
I think that there are some Salafi clerics who have used incitement against Christians to build a base. I would point at them particularly. But this is a segment of the community. Those who have engaged in a political discourse, while at the beginning used some sectarian incitement, I think have moved away from it slightly, while their base continues to raise the tenor of violence against religious minorities.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you.
Second, I'd like to know how Canada could most effectively promote human rights during Egypt's democratic transition.
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
One is impunity. In court cases a measure of the successful prosecution of those who commit violence, whether it's sectarian violence or any form of violence, would be the reform of the judiciary. More importantly, in the case of law and order, would be the reform of the Ministry of Interior. I would say that those would be significant measures that the Canadian government could push for and use to measure positive steps toward democracy.
If we're looking at the number of cases of defamation—and I'm not just talking about defamation of religion, but defamation against the president—the number of reporters arrested, the number of channels closed, and the attacks, including personal attacks, against the opposition, I think those would be negative measures, a lack of freedom and a lack of.... Some of the laws that are being put forth in the Shura Council, for example, the protest law and the NGO law, are negative measures, a step away from democracy by this government.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
I have another question.
What specific things could Canada do to improve respect for the human rights of Coptic Christians in Egypt?
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
More importantly, the first step—although it sounds very small, but I think is the most important step—is to push for the proper adherence to the rule of law. Under this current constitution, if the rule of law were adhered to, it would be a step in a positive direction and would give the Christian minority recourse when crimes were committed against it. Most of these cases, including the Alber case, could be prosecuted and justice for the Christian community would be the same justice, and equality under the law would be the same equality, as it is for all communities. That would be the best protection for the Christian community.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
One minute? Okay.
I'd like to know what not to do, in other words, what measures or actions would be less effective in tackling that violence and lack of respect for human rights.
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
I would suggest not using a sectarian frame. I would actually frame it within the context of transparency and good governance and democracy. I think once we get into a sectarian frame it falls on deaf ears. The sectarian violence is not something to be scoffed at, but I think talking about it within the context of greater human rights would be the most effective way of doing this.
So I would avoid the sectarian frame, even though I do admit it and include it within any context—protection of minorities, religion, women, and all these issues. Talk about transparency, accountability, and rule of law.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Wayne Marston
That was quite amazing. We had two seconds left of our time when you wrapped up.
I just want to say on behalf of the committee how much we appreciate your testimony. It's very important to us to have an on-the-ground sense of what's happening there. I want to end by thanking you and wishing you well. And keep safe.
International Advocacy Officer, Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies
Thank you very much.