Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 19th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Order please.

This is the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. This is our 72nd meeting and the date is March 19, 2013.

We are looking into human rights in Honduras.

Today we have several witnesses from the Canadian International Development Agency. Specifically, at the table are Lise Filiatrault, who is the regional director general for the Americas in the geographic programs branch; and Kate Stefanuk, the deputy director for Honduras in the geographic programs branch.

I'm going to mention to members of the subcommittee that given the fact that through no fault of any member of this committee we are starting late—issues of room access—we are going to, if necessary, see the clock very generously in order to allow every member to have time to ask questions. I'll also have to be quite strict on the time I allow you for your questions, however, so I am just warning you of that.

That being said, I'm going to invite our witnesses to begin their testimony. I am sure you already know the drill in terms of how much time you have for opening statements. I invite you to begin, please.

[Lise Filiatrault, Regional Director General, Americas, Geographic Programs Branch, Canadian International Development Agency]

Good afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will start in French and then go to English in the middle of this statement.

I am pleased to appear before you today, following the testimony of Mr. Neil Reeder and Mr. Jeffrey Marder of the DFAIT at the February 7 subcommittee meeting.

First, I will provide an overview of the development context in Honduras and of CIDA's programming in the country. I will also specifically address the questions you raised with Mr. Reeder regarding CIDA's contribution to improving human rights in Honduras.

Mr. Reeder provided you with an overview of the country context in Honduras, highlighting insecurity, and the challenges posed by weak institutions, corruption and transnational crime. The country is one of the poorest in the hemisphere, with high inequality, unemployment, and poor health and education services. The economy is still suffering the effects of the 2008-2009 global downturn, and Honduras' fiscal situation is undeniably weak in structural terms.

Honduras is a key partner in Canada's engagement in the Americas. We view this engagement as the best approach to work with Honduras to address its challenges.

Honduras is one of 20 Countries of Focus for CIDA. CIDA supports mainly two priorities: food security and securing the future of children and youth, through health and education support.

Food security is a significant concern, with close to 1.5 million facing hunger and 35% of the population living on less than $2 a day. Regularly occurring seasonal droughts and floods aggravate this precarious reality, deepen malnutrition and make Honduras dependent on food imports.

Health conditions among Hondurans remain below regional averages, and improvements in health indicators have slowed down in recent years. Malnutrition and stunting among children under five years of age, and maternal and child health remain significant challenges.

Honduras' literacy rates are below most other countries in Latin America, with one out of six over the age of 15 being illiterate. There are challenges in the quality of instruction as well as coverage.

Provision of basic health and education services is being strained by youth demographics, also known as the youth bulge, whereby close to 54% of the population of 8 million is under the age of 15.

The program in Honduras targets poor and vulnerable populations, mainly in rural areas. Our investments, in food security and health and education for youth and children in particular, are fully aligned with the government of Honduras' National Development Plan and focus on poverty reduction.

We consider that food security, nutrition, health, basic education and increased revenues and economic opportunities, form a mutually reinforcing approach to improving citizen well-being. In the longer term, this also helps build up an educated middle class that demands accountability, rule of law and human rights protection.

Food security investments improve sustainable agricultural practices, so farmers can move from subsistence farming practices to diversifying their crops and selling surplus produce at local or export markets, thereby increasing incomes. We have trained 4,000 small producers in sustainable agricultural production and water management. Our investments also provided improved corn and bean seeds to 1,200 farmers that increased productivity by 25%.

Access to nutritious food, with a more diversified diet, especially for women and children under five, is an important factor in the healthy mental and physical development of children, and the well-being of families.

Our support also includes school feeding for children of the rural poor, which not only keep children in school but also increases their learning outcomes. Through our support to the World Food Program, school meals were provided to 156,000 girls and 162,000 boys at the primary level.

Improving child and maternal health through reducing preventable diseases as well as the delivery of basic health services, will allow Hondurans living in poverty to more fully engage as productive members of society and the labour force. Our program has increased community surveillance of two preventable diseases (Chagas and Leishmaniasis) and treatment of Leishmaniasis reached almost 73% of targeted women, men and children. Early pregnancy health care has been provided to 30,000 adolescents and young adults, through our municipal services for adolescent health (MUNSALUD) project. In addition, our Health Community Networks project (REDES) has helped reduce malnutrition rates for children under five by 2% in two regions where malnutrition is significant, through improving municipal health programs. Investments which improve nutrition at an early age nourish intellectual capacity of the young, improving their chance to break the cycle of poverty.

Our investments in basic education are strengthening an important foundation that will allow children to pursue secondary and post-secondary education, giving them economic alternatives to dangerous activities, such as joining gangs. CIDA is supporting the national education program, which provides much-needed institutional support to improve the capacity of the Government of Honduras to manage and deliver quality basic education at national and district levels. For example, our investments helped increase the number of children graduating from grade 6, from 91% to 98%. Through improving teaching techniques, the availability of school material, and ensuring an increase in the number of school days, we have helped increase school attendance from 2 million to 2.16 million children. The quality of education is important to attract and keep children in school, who are therefore unavailable for recruitment by criminals and gangs. Education also instills good work habits, respect for knowledge, and analytical and social skills, all of which improve human development.

This committee specifically asked what Canada is doing to target youth to keep them away from criminal activities. I was in Honduras last month, and I can tell you that our food security and our health and education programming is making a difference, thereby contributing to child protection by giving children a good start in life and providing them with opportunities and alternatives to crime and violence. For example, we visited a poor urban neighbourhood in the capital city of Tegucigalpa, one of the 40 sites of our MUNSALUD, our municipal health project, which works with the United Nations agencies to improve the health and protection of adolescents and children. We heard directly from these young people on how the program taught them about health, about civic values, self-respect, and the empowerment of working for the good of their communities.

Other programming in CIDA complements the Honduras program and provides human rights support. Under our CIDA inter-American regional program, a number of regional initiatives specifically address human rights that benefit Honduras. We have a project that strengthens the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the Inter-American Institute of Human Rights. This project increases the commission's capacity to process petitions related to human rights violations received from individuals and organizations in member states and to increase knowledge of the inter-American human rights system. It works with the Inter-American Institute of Human Rights to develop human rights training programs. Petitioners and trainees from Honduras have benefited from this support.

Another key inter-American program initiative strengthens the capacity and governance of labour ministries and business and labour organizations. It is currently being implemented by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. Under this program, Honduras has been able to incorporate international standards on occupational safety and health. Four workshops were held in Honduras for leaders and members of the main workers' organizations to strengthen their capacity. Through these workshops, 163 participants were trained.

CIDA's inter-American regional program trains justice sector personnel, mainly from government, but also from NGOs and other organizations, and provides technical assistance to address reforms in countries. Trainees from Honduras have participated in training programs on criminal procedure reform and in internships with Canadian justice sector institutions such as our Public Prosecution Service.

The inter-American regional program supports the Organization of American States, and Honduras is eligible to access programs under our OAS cooperation plan. This includes the strengthening of human rights mechanisms and addressing gender issues in human rights.

Other parts of CIDA also have programming that directly supports human rights. For example, we have seen positive results generated by initiatives through our partnerships with Canadians branch. The Justice Education Society of British Columbia is working with Honduran law enforcement and justice institutions to reduce impunity and improve human rights by providing important tools such as crime scene kits, and it is training 386 justice professionals, including judges, prosecutors, and crime scene technicians.

A project being implemented by a Canadian partner, Horizons of Friendship, is generating results by strengthening civil society's capacity to deliver gender training, establish regional networks for action, and increase citizen participation in dialogues on issues such as poverty reduction and violence against women.

Finally, CIDA supports key multilateral institutions including the World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank, and the United Nations Development Programme to provide institutional support and promote improved governance in Honduras.

The dialogue Canada conducts around key issues with the Government of Honduras is another contribution to improving human rights and reducing poverty. CIDA's program director, based in Honduras, often represents Canada on the group of donors known as the G-16. In August 2012, the Government of Honduras and the G-16 drew up a joint declaration to promote common objectives around five priorities, of which human rights was one.

My presentation to you today has highlighted our indirect and direct contributions to improving human rights in that country. We will continue to closely monitor the country context and adopt strategies to reduce risk and maximize the impact of our development programs.

I thank you very much for your interest in CIDA's work in Honduras.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Ms. Stefanuk, you're making a presentation as well? You're just here for support?

In that case, we go now to our questions. Looking at the clock, I see we have time for six-minute rounds, but I will be watching closely. Members who give long, garrulous introductions can expect they will not be able to complete them before I cut them off.

With that warning in mind, Mr. Sweet, you can go first.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Brevity will be my key, then.

Thank you very much, Madam Filiatrault, for your testimony.

You mentioned that 8 million, 54% of the population, are under the age of 15. I think it would be good for the committee to hear.... You mentioned the strain on basic health and education, but what other dynamics are there of having a population of over 50% under 15, or what other challenges will that factor have on Honduras in the near future, as well as in the extended future?

[Lise Filiatrault]

As I said, as the youth population is so important, it's important to keep up with offering them appropriate services. Education is one, and we've talked about that.

Obviously those youth will also have to have economic opportunities in order to contribute to society, and that's another challenge in terms of having a young population. Part of our programming addresses that by equipping youth to be able to participate in society by having access to good-quality education.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

They're going to need jobs very soon. With 54% of them being under 15, many of them will have to become entrepreneurs themselves in order to create the employment they're going to need in the future. But of course it's a country, too, that will hopefully see many opportunities to grow its private sector as well.

Our last witness, Esther Major, had some very chilling facts that she told us about the judiciary, about the police, and about the human rights violations that are happening with impunity in Honduras.

You mentioned the work you're doing with some of your programming with legal institutions, as well as the B.C. government. I take it that's extended to some of the G-16 partnerships as well.

How long has that work been going on, and do the partners feel that measurable progress is being made?

[Lise Filiatrault]

I mentioned a number of various initiatives that we implement under different programs, under different parts of the agency. Depending on the initiative, the length of the start and end date is different. You referred, in particular, to the justice initiative, the Justice Education Society of British Columbia. That program started in 2009, and it's going to be completed during the course of this year.

I mentioned some of the results that were accomplished in terms of training so far. Other initiatives would have a different lifespan. On each of the initiatives we have, we monitor and measure results. In the case of our program in Honduras, we annually look at our results and we monitor the program. We look at progress made in terms of our contributions. Of course, we're not the only player, so obviously the Government of Honduras itself has its programs, and we collaborate on those. There are a number of other donors who are also active and working in those areas. Progress made is a factor of a combination of various investments.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Since you mentioned the Government of Honduras and the fact that this B.C. program has been going on since 2009.... I can't imagine how tough the work is on the ground. I certainly don't want to sound in the least way negative of the efforts that are being made, not only by CIDA but by the G-16. But I can well imagine, too, if I lived on the ground and a program had been going since 2009 and still there was this level of impunity, which was mentioned by our last witness, with human rights lawyers and those in the media, etc., it would seem...well, frustrating is probably too light of a word in this case.

Is there serious conversation happening among the G-16 partners about the issues on the ground, and is there realistic participation by the Government of Honduras? Is there a good partnership there, or are you having challenges as well with the Government of Honduras?

[Lise Filiatrault]

The G-16 is one of the vehicles through which.... The G-16 operates both at the ambassador level and at the more technical, donor level. As you can imagine, there are an array of issues and challenges that we can discuss, so that's one of the mechanisms used to allow the actors on the ground to coordinate their approaches, and also to interact and dialogue with the government.

Throughout our specific initiatives we also have mechanisms to have exchanges with the government—in our case, for example, in education, with the ministry of education and with the ministry of health—to address the issues that are related to the implementation of the initiative, the challenges, and to address them in the best possible way.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Have you had reports from your people on the ground...? One of the things our last witness mentioned was these private security companies that are trying to act like police, and they're guilty of some of these human rights abuses. Have your people been reporting back those kinds of incidents, where these people who are hired are actually causing some of these abuses?

[Lise Filiatrault]

In the course of the implementation of our activities, we are of course in constant contact with the partners who are implementing the initiatives on the ground. We exchange information with them to make sure the security situation does not impede our activities.

It's more from that perspective that we maintain a good dialogue with all our partners, as we monitor the implementation of our own programs to make sure the security situation doesn't put them at risk, or doesn't prevent us from achieving our objectives. That's the nature of the dialogue we have on the question of security in Honduras.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Mr. Marston, please.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I certainly appreciate our two witnesses today. Very few people have the view on the ground that you would have, and it's important to us. I want to commend you for the work you do. Listening to your report, it's pretty obvious that there's extensive work being done, and it's important work.

As a member of the official opposition, we often find ourselves in a little bit of an awkward position, because having said this, we've also had concerns brought to us. I have a couple of notes here.

I've been told that CIDA, along with the Canadian embassy and the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs, was actively involved in lobbying for the mining law that was recently passed in Honduras. I want to give you an opportunity to respond to that in a moment.

Truthfully, I find that quite exceptional, since there was a survey in November 2011, and our information is that 91% of Hondurans were opposed to open-pit mining, which this bill allows. Another aspect of it is that the water supply would be at risk, depending on where certain areas were unprotected, and this would put in grave jeopardy the livelihoods of farmers.

When we hear this kind of thing, knowing the good work that you've traditionally done and continue to do—and I want to stress that—I think it is important to give you an opportunity to respond. I'll actually have two particular questions in a moment.

The process that's in place says that theoretically people can say no to the mining, but it's pretty clear that the rights have already been granted to some companies. To come to the question, why would Canada want to get involved in a situation where it's obvious that the affected communities don't want us to be part of it and they don't want that particular activity to take place?

For the second question, could you name any projects that CIDA is currently funding jointly with extractive industries in Honduras? Could you provide us with some details, if they exist, and the nature and the purpose of the projects?

[Lise Filiatrault]

Of course, I can only comment from the CIDA perspective, and I'll address the last part.

I mentioned already that our thematic priorities in Honduras are health and education—which is in support of children and youth—and food security. At the same time, we have different mechanisms in CIDA, including our regional programs, to address some of the other issues. I talked about human rights because this is the topic here, but we also have some mechanisms that allow us to provide technical assistance, depending on requests that we receive.

To your question about whether CIDA has been involved in matters related to the extractive industry or to mining, we do not have the kind of partnership that you mentioned with extractive industries. We did provide some technical assistance to the Ministry of Natural Resources in order to help the Government of Honduras with...you referred to the mining legislation. What we did is we provided advice on identifying areas of compliance and non-compliance with international norms and standards, and we also helped them with assessing priority needs in terms of the governance and their regulatory capacity to get up to those international standards. That's the extent of our involvement related to the mining sector.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's good to hear. It was being portrayed to us that Canada was lobbying on behalf of...and I thought it was very important to allow you the opportunity to respond to such a concern.

Coming back to the partnerships that you were talking about, is there joint funding between the extractive industries and CIDA to deliver any of these?

[Lise Filiatrault]

In Honduras?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Yes.

[Lise Filiatrault]

No, we're not involved with those types of programming through our country program in Honduras at this point in time.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Are there other places where you are?

[Lise Filiatrault]

We have various activities, yes, related to.... In each country we have strategies and plans that are different, and I'd be happy to come and talk about that at the right opportunity. Yes, we do have some programming that is more related to economic opportunities, sustainable economic growth, including in the extractive sector.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'm sure you realize there are questions about Canada's extractive industry. We had a corporate social responsibility bill that tried to address it years ago. There are a number of areas. That's why we would express interest in that in the fashion we have, because the face that Canada delivers is very important. In some instances, the extractive industry in these countries is the sole connection to Canada for some people. So we want to ensure, as best we can, that the appropriate processes are in place.

How is my time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thirty seconds.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thirty seconds doesn't work very well.

There were 60 people killed there, according to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, in connection with land disputes. Can you offer any information on the investigations? Have they reached any conclusions? Are people actually being brought to justice in those cases?

[Lise Filiatrault]

I don't really have information on that. CIDA doesn't really work in the area of land tenure or land rights. Other donors do, but we do not.

In terms of our involvement when it comes to land use, our food security programming works more in the area of making sustainable use and helping the farmers manage their resources efficiently, because some of this land has limited productivity. That's more the way we work with the small producers when it comes to land-related matters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Marston.

We go now to Ms. Grewal.