Evidence of meeting #75 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was honduras.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mining and the garment industry; that's what we're talking about.
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
The garment industry should help to create jobs. As long as they give good wages to people, I think that would be positive.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Sister, my main question was this: what can Canada do to improve the human rights situation in Honduras? Is there anything that Canada can do there?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
As I said before, regarding the judicial system, some training on the rule of law would be a very positive way for Canada to give some help. You'd have to have some sort of agreement with the government, of course, but I think the judicial system could improve with advisers from Canada.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thank you.
I want to add my thanks, Sister Monge, for the work you've been doing.
My name is Joyce Murray. I'm going to go with a different line of questions, partly because I've been involved in a reforestation and rural development enterprise in Honduras to protect a national forest, Pico Bonito, from some of the pressures of degradation and illegal deforestation. My experience with that suggested that really working with the local communities to create alternative economic development is essential to protecting the sustainability of the resources.
First, in terms of rural economic development, which in the case of Honduras clearly requires security of land tenure and property rights, to what degree is that an important place to focus for on-the-ground changing the situation of the local communities so that the income inequality problem can be tackled in a practical way?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
I agree totally. In rural areas, land and water are indispensable for their subsistence. There may be a hope for agrarian reform, and I think that would be key to really having a substantial bettering of the situation—agrarian reform that is not only distribution of land, but helping, as you were saying, with more means to produce the land, and better technical assistance.
I think land reform is a key issue, yes.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
In terms of conflict around land rights and land use in Honduras, to what degree are those challenges political and to what degree are they technical, such as the absence of an effective technology-based land mapping and title system, that could be addressed at that level?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
I think it has a high political ingredient because the economic and political powers are hand in hand. These big land owners also are in decision-making posts in the state. I think that international pressure can be very effective in that most people feel something has to change in order to overcome the crisis. Yes, I think if there is technological help, it could soften the political aspect of keeping the great differences between those who own the country and those who have nothing.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
So the kinds of technologies that are developed in Canada—we're using GPS to do aerial mapping and multi-layered mapping of the various interests in land and resources—are things that could be useful. At the same time what I'm hearing is that the will to actually stabilize some of these land rights in peasants' and community hands is patchy or weak.
I'm just wondering, Sister, whether your truth commission looked at the advances in Nicaragua in terms of indigenous peoples securing rights to the large tracts of land on the Atlantic side of the country. They finally have a chance to be responsible for the management of their own natural resources in that area and for the communities to be able to have rights in that traditional territory. That was many years and decades leading to that success, recognized now by the government. Did you have a chance to learn about that in your commission? If so, is there any application of that process that might be helpful in Honduras?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
We know of the success of that process in Nicaragua. I think that, yes, empowering the base organizations does have a better chance of raising their standards of living. That could be another suggestion from the Canadian government for the Honduran government, to study that possibility for the rural areas in Honduras.
Gary Schellenberger Perth—Wellington, CPC
Thank you, and good morning, Sister; I guess it's good afternoon here.
Do you think that the present government is behind some of these assassinations that are happening?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
I think that in--
Perth—Wellington, CPC
I might have put you in a difficult position. I'll change that. I understand your situation.
Does the present government participate in the OAS, Organization of American States?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
At one point the OAS banned the participation of the Honduran government, but then it opened up and they're a part of the OAS now, yes.
Perth—Wellington, CPC
Are they now looked on as a positive part of the organization?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
I haven't heard of any active participation in the OAS; I haven't heard that.
What I wanted to say before is there is a need to listen to a different viewpoint and try to have some kind of an agreement from the different social actors, from the different social sectors. I think when you don't have that opening then it becomes black and white: I mean, those who are with me or those who are against me and I persecute the ones who are against me. I think the whole focus has to be a little different.
Perth—Wellington, CPC
Thank you for that.
I've only been on this committee about three or four months. We've looked into poverty and human rights abuses in various countries and it seems that respect for law and order, and good law and order, runs parallel to poverty. Is it your sense that there needs to be a strengthening of law and order in Honduras?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
Like you said, it goes hand in hand. There's such an abyss between those who own the country and those who are marginalized or excluded, and it's hard to have law and order without justice. Yes, everyone talks about going against poverty, but the other side is the accumulation of wealth. I think there has to be, or tends to be, some better balance of these different sectors.
Perth—Wellington, CPC
On August 12, 2011, Prime Minister Harper announced the conclusion of negotiations toward a Canada-Honduras free trade agreement:
The Canada-Honduras Free Trade Agreement, along with parallel agreements on labour and environmental cooperation, will now undergo a legal review, after which it can be formally signed. Following signature, the agreements will be debated in the Canadian Parliament and Honduran Congress, and following approval by these legislative bodies, the agreements can come into force.
Do you feel a free trade agreement between Honduras and Canada would be a positive for Honduras?
Executive Director, La Comisión Ecuménica de Derechos Humanos
That's a very touchy issue because from our experience in Ecuador many times the analysis shows that free trade is not on an equal basis. Yes, the market of the first world expands into these so-called underdeveloped countries, but there is very little reciprocity and many times the cost of production in our country can't compete with the products that come from the developed countries. That is difficult.
