Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 23rd, 2013

[Karen Spring]

Of course I think all humans need employment; they need some sort of income to feed their family. I think the problem that arises is the poor working conditions, and that they're sacrificing their life and their health to make ends meet. I don't think that's helping an impoverished country develop economically. I think we can do better than that. I think that employment is good and economic development is good. I think there needs to be a certain level of conditions and a certain respect for human rights and I don't think that's happening.

[Gary Schellenberger]

I know here in Canada we also have labour laws that are made for how many hours you should work and all this. My employees were my biggest asset in my business that I ran for 40 years, and my dad did for a few years before that.

We were in the decorating business. I had many employees over those years. Some worked 25 years with our company. I would allow my employees time off unpaid to go to the doctor, the dentist, a funeral, whatever. At the same time I only paid overtime when I could charge overtime to my customers. To get a job completed sometimes we would work maybe 50 or 60 hours in a week. Anything over 40 hours I posted, and if someone only worked 38 hours the next week, they would get full pay.

I didn't necessarily go by the rules either, but I did supply employment to people. They enjoyed working for me, and remember they were a big asset. These companies could not run without employees. What do you think of me as an employer who had my people work overtime and not give them overtime?

[Karen Spring]

Talking about jobs and employment and working conditions in Canada, to me there's a big difference in how complaints from employees are handled. I think that's fundamentally the biggest issue for me, that if there are concerns of labour issues there's a functioning justice system in Canada that can mediate those concerns if there is a conflict between an employer and an employee.

My main point is that there needs to be a functioning justice system and functioning state institutions to receive complaints if they occur, if employees don't like that they're working overtime. Without that I don't think we can begin having a discussion comparing it to Canada, in a way. I think that is what it all comes back to for me, that inability for the state institutions to monitor the human rights situation and to follow up with the human rights situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We once again let that go a little bit longer than we should.

Colleagues, what I'm going to do here is see the clock as giving us just enough time to give Monsieur Jacob five minutes for questions and answers from Ms. Spring.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witness for joining us.

I see that you have worked in the Bajo Aguán Valley. Human Rights Watch reports that over 80 people have been killed through acts of violence over the past three years. One of the victims was lawyer Antonio Trejo-Cabrera, whom you mentioned earlier.

Could you provide the subcommittee with some details on the nature of land entitlement issues in the Honduras region?

[Karen Spring]

Mr. Trejo, who was killed in September 2012, worked for a peasant farmer movement called MARCA. I just visited MARCA on its plantations about a month ago when I was in Honduras. Mr. Trejo was the first lawyer to be successful in carrying out a legal case against the three large wealthy landowners in the Aguán Valley, and for that he lost his life, but he won the case for the peasant farmer movement.

There has been no investigation into his death, and his family members have been very public in demanding justice. His brother was actually just assassinated in February of this year. There is an investigation into his brother's death, but from what I've heard from human rights organizations and from the peasant farmer movement, it's a very manipulated investigation, not in any way a fair investigation that is occurring.

Antonio Trejo, the lawyer, was also really important in challenging other laws that are important and that also touch on Canadian interests. He put forward an injunction against the model city law that Canadians have been involved in, which I hope the committee will review at some point. The movement he represented is now without legal representation. It has lost its lawyer who had a lot of documentation and a lot of knowledge about the situation. They are basically awaiting evictions again. They're in the same state they were in before. Even though the court has ruled in their favour, nothing has happened.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

So no independent, impartial and effective investigation has been conducted into the recent murder of Antonio Trejo-Cabrera, the lawyer who defended the rights of peasant groups in land conflicts.

Was that also the case in the murder of Manuel Díaz-Mazariegos, the Choluteca public prosecutor who handled human rights cases?

[Karen Spring]

I'm not entirely familiar with that case because I haven't worked in that region as extensively as I have in the Aguán Valley. I'm not entirely sure if there have been investigations started, but once again I would be more likely to say that I would question whether that investigation is occurring because of the lack of investigative abilities and rule of law.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I have one last question.

Rights Action criticized the creation of charter cities in Honduras, which are based on the concept developed by Professor Paul Romer. I would like you to explain what that concept consists of and what the human rights impact of creating charter cities in Honduras is on the population.

[Karen Spring]

The charter city project was something the current government approved. Basically, they want to create nations within Honduran territory. They have allocated three different locations within Honduras that could potentially be the location of model cities or charter cities.

Actually, in all the areas where the model cities are proposed, there are significant land issues that have been going on for decades. The most significant is in the Aguán valley. That area has been allocated for a potential model city. It's also the area where there's a huge Canadian investment in tourism; there's a couple of Canadian investments in tourism, actually.

The model cities were originally declared unconstitutional by the supreme court. Then in late December last year and January of this year, the judges who declared it unconstitutional were removed from their positions and the law was re-approved.

There's been a significant amount of protest against the model cities, once again because the communities where these charter cities will be built are being excluded from any sort of dialogue.

As for transparency, accountability within the project, the main person, the very person who proposed the project, Dr. Paul Romer, an American economist, has since pulled out of that process, with the complaints that there is no accountability or transparency in the process that the Honduran government has followed.

It's raised a significant amount of controversy in Honduras, but they've re-approved the legislation. In the coming months, something could happen with the charter cities.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank your very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Jacob.

Thank you all, committee members, for allowing me to see the clock flexibly in order to allow our witness to complete her testimony and answer all questions.

Ms. Spring, first of all, thank you for accommodating the time considerations we imposed on you unilaterally, and second, for your fulsome testimony.

If you don't mind, it would be very helpful to us if you could follow up on that one matter we discussed earlier, getting the additional information to us. That will help us to have fuller information as we attempt to complete our hearings.

Thank you very much.

[Karen Spring]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Colleagues, our meeting is adjourned.