Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 23rd, 2013

[Karen Spring]

I have a lot to say about police reform that's going on right now in Honduras. Thank you for mentioning that they have suspended the attorney general of Honduras for a period of 60 days from what I understand.

I think the current police reform that is occurring right now has a lot of important problems with the way it's being carried out. I'm not sure how you can reform the police when there's been absolutely no justice from what occurred after the coup d'état. The people that participated in the coup d'état are the people that are in the congress and are making these decisions about how the police reform is going to be conducted.

I'm not sure how a police reform process can occur if the director of the national police force has himself been accused in participating in death squads, so I'm not optimistic about it achieving any significant change. I think it may remove a couple of low-level police officers that have been involved in human rights violations, but I don't think it addresses in any way the root or the intellectual authors, and the systematic cleansing of the police that needs to occur, and not just the police, but the people that are making these decisions about who is carrying out these reforms.

I'm not optimistic that it will lead to any good results in terms of lowering the levels of violence and insecurity in Honduras. I think we need an independent international body to intervene and not leave these decisions up to the same people that were responsible for the coup and a lot of the ongoing problems in Honduras.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

There is now a general sense that Honduras is a country in meltdown, as homicides soar, and drug trafficking overruns cities and coasts. The nation's highest court has been embattled in a constitutional fight with congress. The streets are riddled with bottles. Cities aren't replacing stolen manhole covers and soldiers aren't receiving their regular salary. The education secretary says that 96% of the schools close several days a week or a month because the teachers are on strike constantly.

You lived in Honduras from 2008 to 2011. From your own personal experience, is there anything more you could tell us about that country?

[Karen Spring]

I lived in Honduras from 2009, roughly one month after the military coup, up until 2011. I have returned frequently since then. I'm very familiar with what's been happening with the teachers' strike and some of these issues. I've noticed in the time that I've spent there the increasing level of insecurity in the country.

What is optimistic about the country for me and something which, if Canada is really concerned about human rights in Honduras, we need to really support is the social movement that is demanding some sort of change, a transformative change of the country. Actually, one of the root causes of the coup was that they wanted to reform the constitution, so that they had more of a voice in what was occurring in the political and economic decisions of the country. That hasn't happened and the people that are in congress and the individuals that carried out the coup don't want that at all.

For me, what's optimistic is the social movement, the human rights groups, and the grassroots groups that are pushing for this change to rewrite the constitution. That's optimistic for me.

They have a significant chance in doing well in the next elections, but with the deterioration of the human rights situation and the high levels of fear and insecurity in the country, it's unclear what will happen. I'm optimistic that they have a lot of broad popular support.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Chair, do I have some more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Unfortunately you do not, at 5 minutes and 36 seconds.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Ms. Grewal.

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I'll be very quick because I have to run to the House. I just have a couple of questions. Did I hear an allusion to the fact that the free trade agreement has side agreements? Are there side agreements? I'm new to the committee here.

[Karen Spring]

Sorry, I'm not sure. I don't think that the free trade agreement with Honduras has been published, or it has not been made public, so I can't speak about that.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

It's the other 19 that have it.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I'm sorry.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

It's the other agreements with other countries that—

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Okay, so there are no side agreements.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Not yet. There's no agreement.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Is the Canadian government working towards one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I just run the committee. I don't actually answer questions.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Did I understand that there were negotiations? The subject of free trade came up.

[Karen Spring]

What I understand is that there have not been any discussions about.... Since the coup Canada's record of talking about human rights violations has been very disappointing. They've made very few statements about human rights. I don't have access to the negotiation process at all, but based on the very little mention of human rights in general, I don't believe there's any consideration of human rights issues in the free trade agreement. I don't know if—

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

We have a report...[Inaudible—Editor]...Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I don't answer questions but our analysts do and I was given some information by our analyst.

Thank you, Erin.

She pointed out that there was a press release put out from Foreign Affairs and International Trade which says the following:

On August 12, 2011, Prime Minister Harper announced the conclusion of negotiations toward a Canada–Honduras free trade agreement. … The Canada–Honduras Free Trade Agreement, along with parallel agreements on labour and environmental cooperation,—

I guess those are the side agreements you're referring to.

—will now undergo a legal review, after which it can be formally signed.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

The point I was going to make, Mr. Chair, is that document has not been made public.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

The agreement.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Yes. They made the announcement.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

That clarifies things, thank you. We don't know if there are side agreements in this.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

There were.