Evidence of meeting #83 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mining.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Todd Gordon  Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Gary Schellenberger  Perth—Wellington, CPC

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Welcome to the 83rd meeting of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, on this Tuesday, May 21, 2013.

We are continuing our hearings into the human rights situation in Honduras. Todd Gordon, who is a professor at Wilfrid Laurier University, has graciously agreed to come here and serve as a witness.

Professor Gordon, as I'm sure you already know, you have about 10 minutes, more or less, to make your presentation. We'll adjust the questioning to allow however much time is left to be divided equitably.

I'm going to ask Mr. Marston, if I could, for a small favour. I have to leave early to make an S.O. 31, so I'll ask you to—

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

That's fine.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right.

Professor Gordon, please begin. Take as long as you need to get the facts across.

Thank you.

1:10 p.m.

Todd Gordon Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Do I need this on when I speak?

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

You don't need it when you're talking. You'll probably find it confusing. If you don't speak French, you'll want that in your ear when someone asks you a question in French.

Thank you. Please begin.

1:10 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

Thank you to the committee for inviting me. My name is Todd Gordon and I am an assistant professor of contemporary studies at Laurier University in Brantford.

My background is in political science and political economy. My research is focused on Canada's political economic relations with the global south on the increasing penetration of Canadian multinational corporations into the south, the social and ecological impacts of Canadian foreign investment, the response of communities in the south to this investment, and how Canadian foreign policy toward the south is framed by this dynamic.

Most recently, my research has focused on Canadian relations with Latin America. Part of this research, though not exclusively, includes Honduras. Others have spoken forcefully to this committee about the immediate and ongoing human rights catastrophe in Honduras, part of a long historical trajectory of violent suppression of dissent in the impoverished central American country dominated, as it is, by a small economic elite.

In the contemporary setting this involves the targeting of and the assassination of political opposition, the repression on a terrifying scale in the Bajo Aguán region against peasants fighting land expropriation, including the murder of a peasant activist just this past May 17.

It also includes the sexual assaults, the threats, and the daily indignity suffered by political opponents to the post-coup regime. Those other witnesses have also spoken about the impunity with which perpetrators are acting, which suggests the policy of the state. Indeed, according to the human rights organizations on the ground in Honduras—such as the committee of the relatives of the detained who disappeared, as well as members of targeted groups—the main perpetrators of this violence include part of the Honduran state security apparatus.

What we've seen in fact is the reappearance of death squads as Honduras tumbles back to the dark days of the Central American dirty wars, when death squads comprised of military police and sometimes civilians scattered the country eliminating dissidents. Juan Carlos Bonilla, who has been implicated in the torture and disappearance of a number of people in the 1990s, was named head of the national police by the Lobo government.

President Lobo recently named Arturo Corrales adviser to the Micheletti dictatorship as minister of security, and Corrales subsequently named three retired military colonels to key security posts.

I want to bring this back to the question of the Canadian government and multinational corporations, and their implication in this. This repression, the appalling state of human rights in Honduras, is the context in which the Canadian government is building its ties to Honduras, and Canadian companies are advancing their economic interests. The consequences of this should give us serious pause.

During two brief visits to Honduras in the last few years, and during the visits of Honduran activists to Toronto, I've had the opportunity to meet and interview a number of Hondurans resisting Canadian multinational corporations, and to discuss the social and environmental impacts of Canadian foreign investment.

I have met a number of Hondurans, for example, who for more than a decade have been involved in the struggle against Goldcorp, as well as activists with the Siria Valley environmental defence committee who blamed Goldcorp for polluting the local water system and poisoning inhabitants of the valley. They point to deforestation, diversion of natural waterways, starving of poor small farmers of scarce water resources, and food security for the small farmers in the region.

Studies of the mine closure by engineering experts from Newcastle University have identified acid mine drainage and other shortcomings, which place at risk the local water system. Studies of the water used for human consumption in two of the valley communities found levels of arsenic, lead, and hexavalent chromium, well above World Health Organization acceptable levels.

Rights Action reported that the ministry of the environment's own study—which it sat on for four years—found that 46 of 62 people tested had dangerously high levels of heavy-metal poisoning in their blood that would have required immediate and sustained medical treatment back in 2007.

Clinical studies by Honduran doctor Juan Almendarez have, to quote him, “revealed serious skin and hair loss problems, respiratory track, nervous system and eye problems—all of which can be attributed to contamination by heavy metals that are dangerous to the health of the present and future generations.”

Opponents of the San Martin mine have, through the years, faced harassment and intimidation. In the summer of 2011, 17 people were charged with obstructing a forestry project on land for which mineral concessions were previously granted to Goldcorp. They say the logging is a possible initial step towards new mining activity. The charges were recently dropped as most were not even present at the site and the day related to the charges.

Conflict has also surrounded Aura Minerals' San Andres mine in Honduras. Hondurans with whom I've spoken express real concern about a new wave of Canadian mining in their country. Despite the positive report by a Gildan representative to this committee, human rights activists in the maquila sector paint a different picture. In Honduras, I spoke with an activist who described Gildan as one of the most exploitative companies in the maquila sector, whose practices worsened after the coup. They cite a number of problems and violations of their labour code. I know Karen Spring has spoken to the committee on this subject and she is much more knowledgeable than I am.

One of the largest Canadian projects that often doesn't get enough scrutiny in Honduras and is currently under development is owned by Life Vision, whose owner Randy Jorgenson is a close associate of President Porfirio Lobo's brother Ramon. The project, which will include a new $15 U.S. million cruise ship dock to bring tourists from around the world, is being built near the north coast city of Trujillo on land to which afro-indigenous descendant Garifuna communities claim title. The environmental permits for the first two projects were reportedly actually granted under the coup dictatorship in January 2010 before Lobo was inaugurated. People in the community spoke of not being consulted, of being ignored by the company and government. Those who have spoken out most, including people I've spoken with—and one of whom criticized the project on his community radio program in Trujillo—also spoke of receiving death threats and of being followed by company security.

The two patterns I've raised about Honduras here, the dire state of human rights in general and the track record of Canadian mining in other countries, create a very dangerous situation for Hondurans. The Canadian government's intervention since the coup, I would argue, has not helped. It's made things worse. From Peter Kent's placing some of the blame for the coup on Manuel Zelaya and criticizing his attempts to return from exile; to Canada's strong support for the recognition of the presidency of Porfirio Lobo, despite his election taking place in the context of a coup and dictatorship, violent repression, and a boycott by the anti-coup movement; to Canada's subsequent ongoing support for the Lobo government in spite of the continuous violence; or to Canada's contribution to the funding and training of Honduras' security forces including a proposed partnership with Colombia whose own security forces have an extremely problematic history of their own.

But that strong support for the Lobo government, starting at a time when the majority of governments in Latin America refuse to recognize it, laid the grounds for Canada's successful push for the free trade agreement and the new mining law. Fittingly President Lobo's slogan has been, “Honduras is open for business”. The free trade and the mining law are good examples of this, as is his charter city project—enclaves that will be run by independent boards obviously influenced heavily by foreign investors and largely independent of the national government and its various laws and organizations and regulations. These things are designed—to use the language of Foreign Affairs and International Trade—to lock in market access for Canadian companies, which I would argue, puts the rights of these companies above those of the people of Honduras and their environment.

Implicating them more, mining companies will now be paying taxes for the aforementioned Honduran security sector. But these conflicts in Honduras, it's important to stress, aren't isolated, particularly as it relates to mining. They are part of a systematic pattern of conflict in Latin America—and in fact globally—involving Canadian multinationals and backed by a Canadian foreign policy aimed at supporting Canadian companies' aggressive pursuit of profit regardless of the consequences. By my count since mid-2009, 15 people have been killed in Latin American conflicts involving Canadian mining companies. The most recent being a few weeks ago in Guatemala in a conflict with Tahoe Resources that ultimately lead to martial law being declared in the community surrounding the mine. Right now a civil suit against Hudbay resources is ongoing in Toronto for its alleged responsibility for the murder of an opponent, the shooting and paralysis of another, and the gang rape of several women in Guatemala. In January, Guatemalan Goldcorp security guards opened fire on protesting workers.

A study conducted for the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada, not publicly released by them, but leaked instead in 2010, found that Canadian companies compared to their international counterparts have been far and away involved in the most conflicts of the past 10 years. For these reasons, there are emerging national and transnational movements against Canadian mining in Latin America—from blockades to national environmental campaigns to community referenda against Canadian mining in several countries.

As I wrap up here, we need to be clear. In Honduras and beyond in the global south, there is a history of conflict between Canadian multinational corporations and local communities. Regardless of what the mining industry or Neil Reeder might say to this committee, or what the Honourable Julian Fantino might say to the Canadian public, there is a wealth of academic research demonstrating that mining does not help in the economic development of poor communities. In fact, there are many studies that show it leaves them worse off.

I would add that there is also ample research challenging the claim that maquilas—enclave free trade zones for sweatshops—contribute in any meaningful way to a broader improvement in the standard of living in poor countries. The politics of aggressive free markets, strong foreign investor rights, the aggressive defence of Canadian mining companies—these things will not help poor Hondurans, Colombians, Peruvians, or Guatemalans. Indeed, I don't think they're designed to do so. They will only make an already vulnerable population more vulnerable.

Thank you.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you very much, Professor Gordon.

I'm going to say we have time for questions and answers of five minutes each, because these things tend to expand a little bit.

We'll start with Mr. Sweet.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The way that you closed, Mr. Gordon, has encouraged me to start with a different question than I wanted to.

You made a sweeping statement that Canadian investment and creating jobs would not be beneficial in Honduras. You mentioned mining, but you also referred to Gildan. Could you give me some reasoning for that?

1:25 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

I'll speak first to mining, and if I go on too long then perhaps someone could let me know because there's a lot I could say about that. There is quite a bit of research out there on this, but I'll list a number of points that I think are worth mentioning about why mining—

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Excuse me, Professor Gordon, but it sounds like you're going to use up the rest of the time, which is okay and that's your right. When I say we're going to keep these things limited, that's to keep the questioners from giving speeches, not to keep you from doing so.

I was going to say, as you structure your response to this question and others, that you have the option of submitting documentation to us. In fact, we invite it and it might obviate the need to give intense detail on certain things.

All right, please continue.

1:25 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

What I'll do then is highlight what I think are the key points on why mining doesn't lead to development and what the criticism in the academic literature suggests. I'll quickly list a few points, and if you want me to follow up on any of them, I'd be happy to do so.

The first is that mining often leads to displacement of communities that live on or near the mineral resource deposits, communities that might be small farmers or indigenous communities living at a subsistence level and relying on the local ecology, water sources, and so on. The physical act of building mines and the infrastructure needed for it often displaces those people.

The impact of mines involves a lot of chemicals that can be quite poisonous and filter into the groundwater system. Quite often, whether it's intentional or accidental, mining can be a very ecologically problematic practice.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

That's true of all extraction.

1:25 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

Right, and this can have an impact on the future of the people. Even when the mine is closed, 10 to 20 years down the line, that land may not be arable anymore, and the water sources may not be usable.

Mining these days is extremely capital intensive, which means that the possibility for employment, particularly relative to the revenues that are being generated, is quite low. In local communities, particularly in the global south where mines are being developed, the local community doesn't have the skills for the skilled labour that's needed in those mines. The capital, the technology, and the infrastructure developed for the mines, to build and run the mines, are often imported. They're not connected to the local economy.

Mining, like maquilas, tends to produce enclave economies with not very strong backward linkages to the rest of the national economy. Higher value-added processes, which draw more wealth from the processing and refining of the minerals, tend to take place in the global north, not in the global south.

Commodity prices are set in the world market, generated primarily by the demand from the global north and China, and mining prices tend to be very volatile over time. So you're depending on prices that are set globally for the national revenue. But the mining regimes that are influenced in large measure by the Canadian International Development Agency, Foreign Affairs, and Natural Resources Canada tend to be neo-liberal mining regimes that have low royalty rates and various other things that make it a bigger draw for Canadian mining companies to go in there and invest.

I'll leave it there.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

So in this circumstance, although we have mining practices that are very ecologically friendly, in the sense of being able to do that as much as possible with extraction—we see that in Alberta in the oil sands, where the technology for extraction has come leagues from where it was before—you're saying that those practices aren't under way in Honduras?

1:25 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

Well, I think people might question how ecologically sensitive oil extraction is in the tar sands in Alberta, but I would also say that a lot of critics and people living in Honduras would suggest that the mining regime that's developed in these countries and that Canada has input into doesn't have environmental regulations as strong as it should have.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Do I have time?

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

You have time for one question, very briefly.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

That's great.

We've had some very distinguished people here in the past, such as Michael Kergin and Adam Blackwell, and they have all said that although they agree the situation is not good—and we've had numbers ranging from 67 homicides per 100,000 to 82.1—they have been able to see some positive movement in the human rights situation with the Lobo regime. How would you feel about those comments?

1:30 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

I'm very skeptical of that.

I think the biggest pusher, the biggest agent, for an improved human rights situation in Honduras is the social movement itself, starting with the Frente Nacional de Resistencia Popular, the popular resistance front that formed in response to the coup, and the teachers' unions that have been out and protesting and playing a leading role since the coup. These are the forces that have been demanding human rights, and these are the forces that have paid a very dear cost.

I think if you follow what's going on in Honduras, you'll see things that make you question whether Lobo is really committed to human rights. As I mentioned, and as your other witnesses here have mentioned, placing Juan Carlos Bonilla as head of the national police and Arturo Corrales as minister of security, who was an adviser to the Micheletti dictatorship, and the level of impunity, which a number of observers have said—and I agree with them—in fact suggest a policy of the state....

I think the problems there are so deeply entrenched—and they move up the hierarchy—that nothing less than a very profound transformation of the judicial and security system in Honduras could change anything.

Sorry, I'm getting looks from—

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Actually, I said that I wouldn't cut you off.

I was going to cut the questioners off, but we only had 30 seconds left when you asked your question, Mr. Sweet, so it might make sense to move on. I just want to quickly ask a question, though.

You've just mentioned those movements. There were two lawyers.... When we started these hearings, they were centred around the then recent killings of Antonio Trejo-Cabrera and Manuel Díaz-Mazariegos. Were those two individuals associated with any of the movements you've mentioned or with a similar type of movement? Or was that separate from this?

1:30 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

I didn't catch both names. Antonio...?

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

They were Antonio Trejo-Cabrera and Manuel Díaz-Mazariegos.

1:30 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

Antonio Trejo was a lawyer for the MARCA, which was one of the peasant cooperative movements, so obviously he was advocating for them, and that's why I think he was assassinated.

What was the other name?

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Just give me a minute, please. I am not the best with these things. It is Manuel Díaz-Mazariegos.

1:30 p.m.

Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual

Todd Gordon

I'm trying to remember which one Manuel Díaz—