Evidence of meeting #83 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mining.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
In all fairness, it says here that he was a public prosecutor in Choluteca, so that actually answers the question.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you, though. That was very helpful.
Mr. Marston, you've been very patient. It is your turn.
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Welcome, Professor. So far, on the inference in your testimony about the president, I would read it the way most grassroots Canadians would: you're known by the company you keep. When he appoints people to positions of security who have known records of violating the human rights of the people, that says an awful lot. It speaks volumes. Then, to have that person put into place three of his cronies or co-conspirators, or whatever you want to call them—I mean, death-squad people—that is a real significant problem.
But I want to go back for a second to Gildan. They testified here. They talked to us about the Fair Labor Association and how their practices in their workplace were judged by the Fair Labor Association. Well, if you look at the board of directors of the Fair Labor Association, you see that it's all companies that have a vested interest in Honduras. Are you aware of that?
1:30 p.m.
Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Yes. The Fair Labor Association has been criticized on a number of fronts, not even with specific respect to Honduras. It was also involved in a controversy over Foxconn related to Apple's factories in China. It's been criticized in general by the United Students Against Sweatshops for having weak code enforcement mechanisms, and so on.
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I'm aware of that, and I was raising it for the interest of my friends here on the committee because it puts into doubt—
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
—some of the best practices as described by Gildan when they were before this committee. As for Goldcorp....
When we're talking about the murder rate being the highest murder rate of any country on the face of the earth, that in itself is a rather outstanding statement when you think about it. But we understand from testimony that a variety of studies have been done in South America, and there's a move by companies to hire former paramilitary as their security. Paramilitary is kind of a phrase for death squads, really, in a lot of countries.
I want to ask you about the taxes that are paid by Canadian companies for military security. Are you aware of that tax and the implications of that?
1:35 p.m.
Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
The security tax has been implemented, and I believe it's 2.5% with respect to Canadian mining. The security tax is being implemented in a number of different sectors, including for withdrawal of cash from bank machines, mining sector included. I think it will be a much more serious issue to look at, too, once the mining laws and regulations are in place. What you're going to see, of course, is a new wave of exploration and mining development taking place in Honduras. I think it's going to be a very serious issue. I believe it's in place for five years with a possibility of prolonging it after those five years.
1:35 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I want to take you for a moment to charter cities. I don't want to get too far into it. I know it's an area where you had a different focus in your commentary here. In the free trade agreements that we've negotiated, it's opened the door to give companies national status, like states, which puts them in a position of being able to sue countries on an equal playing field. It's never been seen in our world economy before. When you add to that the proposition of charter cities, you're in a situation.... Let's assume at some point Honduras reaches a level of a democratically elected government that's genuine, they're hamstrung by charter cities and the mining laws and these other things. Would you like to comment on that?
1:35 p.m.
Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
That's the whole point of free trade agreements, mining laws, and charter cities. As I said earlier, if you read Foreign Affairs and International Trade's assessment of these laws, the language that's used is to lock in market access. The language they use is transparency and predictability, which on the surface sounds like it's something neutral politically and economically, but when you consider the asymmetrical relationship between countries of the global north and global south, the poverty of people in mining-affected communities, and in general in countries like Honduras, predictability and locking in market access are not neutral things. That's not the goal.
The goal is to ensure that as little as possible can interfere with the profit-making of Canadian multinationals and maquila companies, and the ability to repatriate that profit back here, with as limited low taxes as possible, as low environmental regulations as possible, and as weak labour rights as possible. If governments aren't seen to be fulfilling their obligations under these agreements, they can be sued for that.
I can give you a number of examples of that just down the isthmus from Honduras in Costa Rica, El Salvador, and so on, where human rights tragedies.... Despite that, a Canadian company is suing a very impoverished El Salvador for millions and millions of dollars, and a Canadian company is suing Costa Rica for a billion dollars over a mine—Las Crucitas—that is very widely opposed by the Costa Rican population. The idea is to limit the ability of the people, as much as it is the government of these countries, to actually challenge the power and domination of multinational corporations in these countries. That's the goal: free markets above social issues.
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you, Mr. Marston. I'm going to ask you to take the chair in a moment because I'll have to leave.
Ms. Grewal, please begin.
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Gordon, The Economist magazine ranks Honduras as the 85th most democratic country in the world, with a precipitous decline over the last few years. Nearby countries haven't seen such a sharp change for the worse. What is present in Honduras but not in its neighbours that is contributing to these problems?
Can you please say something on that?
1:35 p.m.
Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
It depends on which of Honduras' neighbours you're speaking of.
I wouldn't overstate how great things are in Guatemala or El Salvador. I mentioned the human rights problems in Guatemala related to Canadian mining. There are ongoing issues of impunity, where just this morning it was reported in The New York Times that a general convicted of genocide has had that case overturned. In El Salvador five activists fighting Canadian mining companies have been assassinated. Again, there are levels of impunity that go back decades. I wouldn't overstate how much better things are there. Though you're right, in Honduras the situation is much more dire.
I think in part what happened was that you had a stronger social movement emerge in Honduras over those last several years. The moderate—and I don't want to overstate this either—shift by Manuel Zelaya to the political centre-left, by placing a moratorium on mining exploration and development, slightly raising the minimum wage, opting into Petrocaribe, which is associated with Hugo Chavez, was greater in Honduras than in El Salvador or Guatemala. It has played a large part in the kind of reaction that you're seeing.
I don't think it's necessarily that the elite in Guatemala or El Salvador are so much better than their counterparts in Honduras, it's just that in Honduras they've been pushed in a way that they hadn't been since the days of the Cold War.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Many critics accuse the local elite of using their power to strangle reform on a large variety of issues. How strong is this elite coalition, and from where is this rival challenge most likely to come? Are there any cleavages within the elite group, or do they display a high level of cohesion?
1:40 p.m.
Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
There are obviously disagreements and fights within it. Some people speculate that the suspension of the supreme court justices several months ago was a faction fight within the National Party. In my opinion, Honduras essentially has one political party with two factions within it, the National Party and the Liberal Party, that have ruled Honduras for many decades, with close ties to military leaders. This is going back prior to the Cold War, to the nineteenth century when Honduras was essentially a banana republic, as they problematically called it.
There is a very strong elite consensus in Honduras to exclude the popular classes from meaningful input. This has been expressed for long periods of time in Honduras, through military dictatorships, which formally ended in the 1980s. Clearly, observers have pointed out that the military and security apparatus has remained very strong and influential in Honduras. Persons involved in previous death squads in the Cold War period, trained in the School of the Americas, and so on, still play a significant role in these institutions and apparatuses.
I would say the only possibility for meaningful change in Honduras is the struggles from below. We've seen very brave, courageous struggles—the mass movements that grew up in response to the coup in 2009, the struggles for land reclamation in the Bajo Aguán by the peasant collective movements, and so on, I think those are our best hope for true social justice in Honduras. You are probably aware of the new political party that has formed, with Xiomara Castro de Zelaya running as leader. They've promised reforms and they're fairly popular, so we'll see what happens there.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Wayne Marston
That finishes your time.
At this point, the chair is leaving and asked me to ask a question.
You referred to maquila companies. Would you define them for us? It's not a term we've heard here before.
1:40 p.m.
Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Maquila is a shorthand that people use. It comes from maquiladora, which is the zone in northern Mexico on the border with the United States. The technical term that you'll see in the development literature texts are export processing zones. In Spanish, it's zonas francas. Essentially, a maquila is a company that operates in a maquiladora or an export processing zone.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Wayne Marston
That's what we assumed, but we thought for the record, we should allow that.
At this point, we'll move to Professor Cotler.
May 21st, 2013 / 1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In your remarks you mentioned the appalling situation of human rights in Honduras. This is the context in which the Canadian government and Canadian corporations operate in Honduras. The Canadian government is the second largest foreign investor in Honduras. Honduras is the largest bilateral aid recipient in Central America.
There's also the issue of the free trade agreement. As you discussed, there is the involvement of the corporations, particularly the mining sector. There's this culture of impunity. Given that whole context, what can Canada do to better promote the human rights situation, protect the human rights defenders, etc.?