Evidence of meeting #142 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was journalists.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Ms. Htusan, if you hang on for a minute, I just want to speak to Ms. Castillo, because we're on the subject of El Bus TV.
Very quickly, Ms. Castillo, where do your journalists get their information? What are their sources?
Could also clarify. Are these journalists mostly young students? Are they volunteers?
Co-Founder, El Bus TV
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
Yes, the sources that we use are official sources. These are sources from the government, for example. But we also use independent outlets. We also have what we call interlocal information; information that emerges from the places where we take our broadcasts.
That is one of our goals. We want our newscast to be ever more local and more useful for the community, because it's more relevant to them. It's more direct to them, so we use local information, things that we learn, observe and pick up while we are providing these broadcasts. We want to encourage our reporters to look for information within the communities where they are working, so they can enrich their newscasts and offer news that offers solutions. That would be ideal.
There's a law for community service that applies to university students. For them to graduate, in the last few years of their degree they have to complete mandatory hours of social service. Some of them do it with us. We have connections with several universities. We have been approved as a project for community service. It's also a process of training, training for journalists and reporters. Some who started working with us when they were students have stayed with us. Now they are part of our team.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Ms. Castillo.
Ms. Htusan, I'd like to ask you about the ethnic media, the local media within Myanmar. My understanding is that there's little to none left.
Is that the scenario?
Foreign Correspondent, The Associated Press, As an Individual
That's correct.
Even the mainstream media, when it comes to the Rohingya crisis, have gone to the right wing. They suddenly became the supporters of the government. For such a long time they considered the Rohingya non-existent or not belonging to the country, so they refuse to report about Rohingya as well. We have a very, very small group of left-wing media.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
That brings me to my next question.
What is the best source of information now coming from Rakhine State?
February 28th, 2019 / 1:40 p.m.
Foreign Correspondent, The Associated Press, As an Individual
That is a very difficult question for all of the journalists right now. Since 2016, the Myanmar government has shut down the whole region in Rakhine State, particularly where the hundreds of thousands of Rohingya people have fled. When the killings and raping that we were hearing about took place, we were not allowed to go anywhere close to this region. In my particular case, I had constructed connections among the Rohingya communities for such a long time that I was able to communicate with them via different social media platforms, such as WhatsApp or Viber, to get anything I could from those people. From that information I would, of course, try to double-check with the local government, which always denied that anything had happened.
It's been really difficult for journalists to work. When we report something from our Rohingya sources and the government denies it, when we publish it, we become the ones who are violating...and are charged with defamation.
Ms. Anita Vandenbeld (Ottawa West—Nepean, Lib.)
Thank you very much.
We'll go to the next round of question. We'll limit the round to four minutes per person.
We'll start with Mr. Picard.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My thanks to our witnesses for their testimony. You have my admiration for the courage you are displaying.
My question is about Myanmar. Just now, we asked our witness from El Bus TV about Internet access, which seems quite limited to me. What is the situation on Internet access in Myanmar? Can you use it as a tool to get around all the censorship, or does it make current matters worse?
Foreign Correspondent, The Associated Press, As an Individual
Sorry, I didn't get the translation.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
We talked about the Internet with El BusTV and how limited the access was and so on. How does that work with Myanmar? What kind of access do we have, if we have any? What kind of impact does access to the Internet have? With that also come all the questions about fake news and the intervention of foreign entities and so on.
Foreign Correspondent, The Associated Press, As an Individual
We get the information from the government. The government uses different social media platforms for its official ministries' or departments' Facebook pages or websites. The problem is that the official information we're getting from the government is itself misinformation and disinformation.
Right now the local media reports the government statements and the comments directly from interviews with the government, which are usually incorrect.
We are actually swallowing a lot of misinformation. But at the same time there is no preventing it, because this misinformation is coming directly from the government. The government feeds the journalists the kind of information they want to spread. That's one of the bigger challenges we're facing at the moment.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Ms. Castillo, you said that your journalists were sometimes arrested while doing their newscasts. But you also say that in many cases your sources are official. How do the official sources end up being the ones arresting you? It's kind of a contradiction. They want you to have information from the right sources, but at the same time they want to prevent you from doing your job.
Co-Founder, El Bus TV
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
Our responsibility is to be able to analyze and be critical about the official information, so we can compare what Juan Guaido is saying about humanitarian aid with what Nicolas Maduro is saying about it. That is also part of our responsibility in the work we do. We leave it in the hands of the public, the citizens, to make a decision about their perspective on those different versions.
Since most people have access to only official outlets and official TV channels, they are surprised when they hear information that's relevant to the opposition, about corruption or inflation and all of those subjects that aren't covered by the official media, or about humanitarian aid.
There are people who are surprised when they are shown all of those things that the government doesn't show. They say they didn't know that this was happening and that this information really surprises them, because they didn't know these things were happening.
Ms. Anita Vandenbeld (Ottawa West—Nepean, Lib.)
Sorry, that's the time.
We will now go to Mr. Anderson, for four minutes.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you for being with us today.
Mrs. Htusan, I want to ask you a bit about the role that Buddhism is playing right now in the state of affairs in Myanmar. You talked about three agencies that you need to be concerned about: the military; the Buddhist extremists, with some of the monks tied very closely together with the military leadership right now; and then, of course, the civilian government.
Buddhism seems to be changing its face. In the past, before the 2007 revolution, the notions of kindness, compassion and love were at the forefront. Now it seems to be a Burmese nationalism that is taking over.
It's not only in Myanmar either. You see it Sri Lanka, Thailand and other areas.
Could you talk about the impact of that on journalism and your capacity as a journalist. Also, how do you combat that or what are the ways we need to work together to try to combat that?
Foreign Correspondent, The Associated Press, As an Individual
When we actually look at the 2007 revolution carried out by Buddhist monks for democracy and human rights, there were many political issues that they were making demands for. Buddhist monks and Buddhist organizations have been long-standing organizations that represent communities and societies in Myanmar, because it's a Buddhist-majority country.
The problem is, in the past, up until 2012, the country was under military dictatorship where nationalism wasn't a priority; it was a priority for people to actually fight against the military regime and to get a democracy. Then when the country opened up in 2010, 2011 and 2012, the Buddhist extremist organizations started forming with the support of the military. Therefore, we have to also be aware that this institution didn't exist just by itself. It's proven that when the Buddhist extremist monks are spreading or preaching Buddhist teachings to the laymen everywhere across the country, they're talking about killing Muslims. They're preaching it publicly, and nobody has arrested them. The government hears it. The local government officials and everybody has heard what they've said, but up until now, not a single Buddhist monk has had action taken against them for what they've been doing.
That means this particular group is very successful, because the military is backing them up, and they can be used for political reasons at any time. When we look now at how this organization has been used and the degree to which the military has been successful in the Rohingya crisis, it proves a lot.
At the same time, giving them so much power as a religious organization is very dangerous not only for the people of Myanmar but also for journalists. When journalists try to report about particular minorities that they don't want, they go up to them.
These days, they're just so blatantly fighting against journalists. For example, when they were trying to shut down two Muslim madrasahs, one of my video journalists was trying to report about the protests and was beaten by a Buddhist monk in the middle of the protests.
They're endangering so much of the free press, and this is not only from the government or the military. They have so much power these days that it makes us unable to report about what we are supposed to report. It's very important, as mainstream media, to actually give more awareness to people and work with civil society groups who can reach out to people in liberalization of the religion. I think that's the only way we could go.
Ms. Anita Vandenbeld (Ottawa West—Nepean, Lib.)
Thank you very much.
We'll now go to Mr. Fragiskatos, for four minutes.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you to the witnesses.
Since I have only four minutes, my question is very brief but important, I think. It goes to Mrs. Castillo.
Considering the current situation in Venezuela, obviously it's difficult for journalists to operate within a context of strife. However, I worry that Venezuela is headed towards potentially a civil war, considering recent demonstrations and recent clashes that have taken place, in addition to the fact that the state looks divided, with some security forces siding with the opposition, or at least beginning to.
Do you think Venezuela is headed towards a civil war? Obviously, if it is, that would pose an even more dangerous situation for journalists to face.
Co-Founder, El Bus TV
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
I think you're right, and this is a very difficult question to answer. Right now, the last report was that there are at least 500 soldiers who have crossed the border and left the armed forces. The armed forces have been losing people and weakening. There has been a weakening through time. Paramilitary groups have been created and are the ones who are responsible for carrying out certain actions or orders. These are the violent armed paramilitary groups that we saw out on the streets this weekend, for example, and, yes, they could create a situation where there's a lot of violence and a lot of anarchy—especially a lot of anarchy.
When we think of a possible transition, it's important to look for a way to deal with these very anarchic groups who have been armed for many years. Without a doubt, these groups have been receiving support from the government.
Being a journalist is already complicated. I hope it never happens that the paramilitary groups have more power, but if it does happen and this becomes a much more serious situation, then I think going out onto the streets will be very delicate, not just for journalists, but for everyone. We already saw that this weekend. The vice-president already has said that this was an example of what they're capable of doing.
Ms. Anita Vandenbeld (Ottawa West—Nepean, Lib.)
Thank you very much.
We will go to the last question from Ms. Hardcastle for four minutes.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
This question is for both of you. Perhaps we will start with you, Ms. Castillo, for about a minute, and then we'll move over to you, Ms. Htusan.
I want to understand your thoughts about some of the measures to protect journalists. As you know, Reporters Without Borders, for example, called for the United Nations to create a special adviser for protection for journalists who would report to the Secretary-General. There are other organizations that perhaps have mechanisms. What are your thoughts on that?
We'll start with you, Ms. Castillo.
Co-Founder, El Bus TV
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
In the last few years, journalism in Venezuela has been well recognized internationally. Many journalists have had to exile themselves, and many of those received awards and recognition for their work. We have organizations and press unions that bring us together and unite us. They support us. However, without a doubt, the truth is that we would need greater coordination for protection. That's something that we're always looking for.
Migration is something that has affected not only journalists. It has affected everyone. Our group of reporters is not as large as it used to be, but we are looking for support within unions and with international organizations that have a presence here.
Right now, we're doing what we can amongst ourselves. Two or three days ago, we saw how a Mexican American reporter was detained and expelled from the country. There's a lot of fragility when it comes to the protection of journalists. There's no guarantee. That's a truth that is the reality in Venezuela.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Yes. I'm taking it that you agree there should be a special position within the United Nations, then, that deals with and reports on the protection of journalists.
Ms. Htusan, can I hear your thoughts on some of the mechanisms that we could put in place or that could be enhanced?