Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 9th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

We still have some time.

Mr. Miller, would you like to take some time?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Yes, thank you.

Thank you both for being here.

When we talk about the causes of the problems in Honduras, we often talk about corruption, the country’s geographical position in relation to drug trafficking and its negative impact on civil society, and the impact of mining, especially on indigenous peoples. There are other causes, of course, but those are usually the ones cited as the main causes or as those contributing the most to the obstacles in Honduras.

In light of these rather serious socio-political circumstances, how can we ensure that our international aid gets into the right hands and is put to good use?

Furthermore, how can we ensure that our Canadian mining companies conduct themselves appropriately? Earlier, you mentioned your business committee that tries to ensure that human rights are upheld. Clearly, some companies, such as Gildan, are not involved in mining, but how can we really make sure that people respect rights, especially when the companies are Canadian?

[André Frenette]

Mr. Chair, we’ll share the answer, if we may.

In response to the first question about the development program, I should first mention that Honduras is the Central American country where our development program is most substantial. It was actually $29 million in 2014-15. Its aim is particularly to build capacity in the areas of governance, human rights, the rule of law and the justice system.

As I mentioned earlier, we are also targeting women and children. We work with very reputable NGOs.

In terms of Canadian taxpayers’ money, we have mechanisms in place to ensure that what you are describing does not happen. We are working with reputable NGOs, that have expertise in the areas I have just mentioned. Mr. Craig, whom you saw last week, is a member of a Vancouver organization that is working to improve police services in Honduras. We work with those types of organizations.

I will ask my colleague to answer the second part of your question about Canadian companies.

[David Usher, Director General, Trade Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

As you heard at the beginning, I'm from the trade negotiations bureau, so I deal more with the trade policy side.

In terms of corporate social responsibility, I would just say that aside from the activities by the missions, which are quite active and which Mr. Frenette has already spoken about, in the free trade agreement, there is a section in the investment chapter dealing with corporate social responsibility, such that both parties encourage their respective companies to follow CSR good practices in their respective countries.

I should also note that the Canadian Trade Commissioner Service, which deals with the trade promotion exercises of the Government of Canada abroad, requires Canadian companies to sign a declaration regarding corruption before being eligible to receive advocacy support from the trade commissioner service. At this stage, two Canadian companies operating in Honduras have signed these declarations. You should also be aware that any company convicted in Canada or sanctioned by an international organization for bribery or corruption is ineligible to receive trade commissioner service of Canada support until it undergoes an in-depth review that assesses corrective measures that are taken to prevent any reoccurrence of its malfeasance.

So this is more on the policy side, but as my colleague Mr. Frenette said, the embassy is also very quite active in terms of constantly raising the issue of corporate social responsibility with Canadian firms present in Honduras.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

MP Hardcastle.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'll just carry on from the questions that some of my colleagues asked.

Going back to corporate social responsibility, you said that you didn't know of the three companies, but you're aware that they're extraction projects. Are you familiar with the nature of these companies, even if you don't know the names of them?

[André Frenette]

No. What I'm familiar with is the fact that they've created the Canada-Honduras business council. A number of issues drive its agenda, but top of list is the issue of human rights.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Are you familiar with the wave of court cases that is coming up dealing with extraterritoriality, with human rights and Canadian corporations that are responsible for the conduct of employees in other countries? Are you familiar with those?

[André Frenette]

With these court cases, no.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Do you believe that this Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, continuing that mandate...? Do you believe there is merit in increasing the effectiveness of the anti-crime capacity-building program that's been introduced and has been identified by other witnesses as something that's an issue? I just wondered if you could expand on that role.

[André Frenette]

Mr. Chair, on the anti-crime capacity-building program, I'm not familiar with the particular issue the member is referring to, but I do know that since 2009, close to $4 million has been invested by in Honduras to build the capacity to provide training and equipment to ensure the Honduran national police are well equipped and well trained to do the job they need to do.

The program remains active across the region, but in Honduras as well. Coupled with the program that you heard about the other day from Mr. Craig, we are seeing some results there.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I don't know how the reporting and evaluation take place, so we're having a vague exchange here.

What do you believe would increase the effectiveness of anti-crime capacity building of that program in particular? Would it be increased funding, because that is part of the mandate to the Inter-American Commission? Do you think that should be a separate initiative?

[André Frenette]

It is.

Mr. Chair, I'm not quite understanding the link between the anti-crime capacity building program, which is a Government of Canada program at Global Affairs Canada, and the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, which is part of the inter-American system.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Let me clarify, then, a little bit for you.

What we're doing here is figuring out our next best steps, our recommendations for human rights in the context of, let's say, Honduras.

Are we better to put our eggs in one basket that seems to be more effective? Are you able to give us some insights about where a program seems to be working, whether it's related or not? Should we be looking at continuing an anti-crime capacity building program? Should we be advocating for more of a Canadian role? You mentioned earlier in answer to my other colleague that there was some discretionary funding rather than just our OAS membership. Is that an area that you see we could be targeting?

[André Frenette]

Chair, I can't talk about what may, or what should, or what could happen. These are policy decisions that are up to the minister to decide.

The only thing I can speak about is what we are doing now. I've indicated a number of different initiatives, whether bilaterally, or regionally with the G16, or multilaterally through the United Nations system. We talked about development programming that aims to strengthen capacity in those key areas that are related to human rights, democracy, and rule of law, and we also talked about the anti-crime capacity-building program, which has had close to $4 million since 2009, to build that, to help train and build capacity in the national police force.

I think the key message here is that, first of all, the Honduran authorities, the Honduran government, need to continue to take action to improve the situation in Honduras. Canada has decided that it's better to be involved, active, and engaged in a conversation rather than being on the margins of it. This is what we've done in response to this subcommittee's report in 2015.

I can only speak to the things that we're doing, Chair. Some of these initiates I've mentioned are yielding results, particularly on the police side, the capacity-building side, but there's much more to be done. There's no doubt about that. There is progress, but there's much more to be done. We will continue to advocate with the Government of Honduras and we will continue our private conversations with the Honduran government to hold them accountable for the improvement of the situation in that country.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

In what ways that you think are working are we holding them accountable right now?

[André Frenette]

Chair, we are having regular conversations, again, bilaterally, regionally, and multilaterally. We are having regular conversations with Honduran officials about some of the things they need to do, some of the things that we find unacceptable. We've had a few of those cases in the past couple of weeks.

Our development programming will continue along the lines that I've mentioned a couple of times during my intervention. It is also important to note that Minister Bibeau has announced a review of the development programming. You're probably aware of this initiative. Significant consultations, both domestically and internationally, will occur to inform the government's new direction on development programming. We are consulting in Honduras. We are having conversations with Honduran officials and Honduran civil society and NGOs about which direction we could or should take to improve our programming in Honduras.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

MP Tabbara.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

You mentioned in your introduction that security and impunity are two of the main factors hindering Honduras and causing many issues. In this regard, how is the relationship between the local authorities and the public? This is probably a given, but are there big trust issues with the public whenever there is a crime or a homicide? Is the public willing to help authorities try to find solutions to a certain incident that happens?

[André Frenette]

Chair, to be honest, I don't have the information about how Hondurans react or don't react to events in their country, but we can certainly conduct an analysis of that and provide information.

What I do know is that the member is absolutely correct that impunity/corruption remains a significant problem in that country. We won't sugarcoat that one. It certainly remains a problem. We're trying to address it. The international community is trying to address it, but unfortunately I don't have specific information on how Hondurans react to that.

There is no doubt that there was much public outcry in the country following Cáceres's murder a few weeks ago. There's no doubt about that. That is part of the reason why it made international headlines and why the international community came out so strongly against the events there.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

My second question has to do with youth. As you know, 60% of the population is under 25 years of age, and it's a difficult economic situation for them. There are many challenges for youth. Are there any Canadian programs available to assist the country in terms of educational services for youth?

[André Frenette]

As I mentioned earlier, as part of our development programming we do look at some of the root causes of the issues we're seeing in Honduras, particularly related to youth. I mentioned human rights, economic development, economic opportunities for young people, and educational programs as well. I don't have specific details to provide you on that today. That's one thing.

The other mechanism is the Canada fund for local initiatives that I mentioned. There are a number of projects that have been put forward related to the issues we have been talking about today, and our missions, not just in Honduras but abroad, are able to utilize those funds to support projects, whether they're projects aimed at youth and education or other projects related to some of the issues these countries are facing.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Also, would you suggest linking bilateral aid from Canada to Honduras as a way to encourage measures in improving human rights in the country and its accountability?

[André Frenette]

Absolutely. Yes. This is a core part of our programming, and I should say not just in Honduras but in Central America writ large. As I mentioned earlier, the promotion of human rights is core to Canada's engagement in the region, as is promoting democracy, strong governments, public institutions, and the rule of law.

All of these are related and also related to the security situation in Honduras. So, yes, absolutely.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I think you know that security needs to come first before we can have further improvement in the country.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?