Evidence of meeting #5 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was china.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That's excellent. Thank you. We really want to hear from him.
We are now going to move to Ms. Jelilova for her statement. Again, it's for approximately six minutes. With interpretation, that would double the time.
July 21st, 2020 / 1:30 p.m.
Gulbahar Jelilova Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur and Russian, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you very much and my greetings to you all. Thank you for this opportunity. I would like to tell my tragic story and talk about the tragedy of my people.
My name is Gulbahar Jelilova. I am a citizen of Kazakhstan. All my ancestors, all my relatives, were born in Kazakhstan. I am the mother of four children. We have a very limited time frame but I will try my best.
For 20 years I've been conducting a small-scale business in Urumqi. In 1996 I went for the first time to Urumqi, East Turkestan. I was detained on May 22, 2017. I was actually kidnapped from the hotel where I was staying in Urumqi city, Hotel CU.
Three policemen and two policewomen took me away from the hotel and they started interrogating me. They were forcing me to sign documents. I was in an interrogation period from eight o'clock to 11:30, and the documents that were given to me I was not able to understand. I was asking them, “I don't know Uighur or Chinese. Please bring me a consular representative or interpreter to explain what is it I have to sign.” Later on I learned that in the regional paper it was written that I was Gulbahar and I was committing terrorist acts.
I didn't sign and I was taken away to another prison. It's the prison called the Sankan. It's the third prison. I entered inside and they started immediately taking samples of my blood and urine. I was stripped naked, and after that they gave me the yellow-coloured uniform. On the same day, I was put in shackles which weighed five kilos.... They were taking samples of my urine to check whether I was pregnant or not. If I was pregnant, then they would do an abortion on the spot or take me away to the prison.
As you might see on the picture, there are a number of cells. There is a picture of a cell. I was taken to cell number 714. It's exactly the same cell I was put in. What you can see is a transparent toilet, and everyone can see what is inside.
Once a week we were given two pills to digest. There is a small window in the wall and they would give us a cup of water and these two pills and we had to swallow them and show them that they had been consumed. Every 10 days we were given injections in our hands and they would not say what kind of medication it was.
We would not take a shower for months. We were forced to sleep on the metal bed. There is no hygiene, there is no running water, and this is a very bad sanitary situation. In one month all detainees got fleas in their hair and we were all shaven afterwards. We have had rashes and sores all over our bodies. We would not take a shower for months.
Sometimes we were taken away. There were two types of prison cells. One is underground with cameras in it and there is one outside where no cameras are present. Detainees were taken away in black hoods and the guardians would do anything they wanted to do to us.
We would be seated in a chair like this. They were insisting and inquiring and asking us again and again to sign documents. I would say, “Why would I sign something I don't understand? What is written there?” They would keep insisting and insisting, and if I would not sign the documents they would take me to the prison.
They once took me away to the open air prison with no cameras and I was seated forcefully on a chair for 24 hours without food or anything. I was still resisting and they were beating me and electrocuting me. At the end there was one guardian who came out and he took his pants down and he forced me to commit something, which I'm not going to talk about. This is what's happening.
I witnessed some girls taken away for 24 hours. They had been tortured. They'd had needles put under their nails. They'd had needles put in their cheeks. Some girls would disappear and we would never see them again.
They even made fake ID for me claiming that I was a citizen of China so that the consul representative of my country would not look for me. They were torturing me like this.
I spent time with girls who had been put on death row. In fact, right now they don't shoot prisoners. They make them fall asleep by injection.
The papers I am showing are original. These are letters written by my children on my behalf claiming that I was not a terrorist, and they were seeking to have me released. My children sent these letters to Putin, and one letter written by my children went to the United Nations. After that, I think I was released because of these papers.
I lost 20 kilos. I lost vision in my eyes. I had no hair.
I was released. For one week I was fed. I was taken care of. They gave me makeup. My hair had turned white, so they dyed my hair a different colour, all these things. They issued me a visa, a normal visa. They talked to me and told me that I had to remain silent, that if I wouldn't stop talking, they would reach me, because China has long arms. They said they would reach me and kill me anywhere in the world.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Ms. Jelilova and Mr. Ali, for your personal accounts and for the courage you've demonstrated. I know the members are looking forward to asking you questions.
With that, we are going to start with Mr. Sweet for seven minutes.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Thank you to both of you for your testimony. I want to be careful asking you questions because I certainly don't want to cause you any more pain than you've already endured.
Mr. Ali, do you still have family in East Turkestan?
1:45 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
My dad was killed in a concentration camp in 2019. My mother and my other siblings, brothers, still remain in East Turkestan.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Has your family been threatened now that you have spoken out about your treatment?
1:50 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
Verbal threats are a very normal and routine practice. They've also been subjected to physical abuse and actions.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Mr. Ali, how did you eventually escape from those who were torturing you? Were you released like Ms. Jelilova was, or did you have to make your way by stealth to get away from them?
1:50 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
There were a number of factors. Number one, I have dual citizenship with Kazakhstan. Number two, my wife was a UNHCR asylum claimer, residing in Kazakhstan for 11 years. While in this process of waiting for asylum hearings by the UNHCR office in Kazakhstan, she was also active in the media demanding my release.
I believe these factors contributed to my release from the Chinese prison.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Thank you. That's all I have.
May both of you be blessed by Allah.
My colleague will take over the rest of my time.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses. I would echo the comments of my colleague.
One of the issues we're talking about at this committee is supply chains and companies that are involved in benefiting from slave labour in East Turkestan. I wonder if either of you could shed any light, from your observation, on companies, brands or industries that are or were operating in East Turkestan. Do you have any guidance for us on addressing the issue of trying to respond to the involvement of companies in this oppression?
1:50 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
I will try to say a few words on this topic.
I will talk about my personal experience. I was detained in Karamay for eight months, and 90% of those detainees were bureaucrats, professors, teachers, or those involved in the oil-producing industry. Although there is no tangible proof, I can claim by my experience among those detainees, these people, that they certainly do not need any educational facilities to get further education.
I would estimate that, because of the international pressure, right now the Chinese state is trying to distribute the bulk of the detainee population to the Chinese interior. In Karamay, 20% to 30% of detainees have already been transferred. They work in dire conditions. Although there is no proof, I can estimate. My guess is that right now, again because of the pressure, detainees are being transferred into sites in the interior of China.
The hidden genocidal campaign of China is still in progress. I would argue that if a commission were delegated by the U.S. or Canada to investigate the facts on the ground, and these commission team members would go house to house to investigate things, then much more information would come to light. Then we would know the true extent of the situation on the ground.
I thank you all.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
If I can follow up to clarify the question, I was wondering if there are specific companies—western companies perhaps, and Chinese state-owned companies—operating in a visible way, where people in the camps are forced to work for those companies, and if the witnesses have any information about that.
1:55 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
I think it's a given that there are activities like these. They exist because China is trying to hide what is happening; it is transferring detainees into interior China to spread out and close these centres. It is a given that, yes, Uighur work is implicated in production.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you.
Could I ask as well if there are tourists from other countries outside of China who people see or interact with? I know that there have been some cases, such as, for instance, a well-known McKinsey corporate retreat in Kashgar. Is interaction at all possible between local people and those coming from outside? Are people who come from outside able to see or to have any awareness of what's going on?
2 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
There is no such possibility because this is all restrained. There is no such thing possible.
2 p.m.
Conservative
2 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
I will tell you about my personal experience. I went as a tourist on many occasions, from Kazakhstan. I was conducting business. I am an ethnic Uighur, but when I would travel into the region local Uighurs would not try to approach me, and I would not try to approach them to make any conversation. They were too afraid to talk to me.
2 p.m.
Conservative
2 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
Can I add something? I would like to ask maybe for guidance. I was detained for one year and three months. I was accused of terrorism. Having endured so much suffering, I'm just asking, who will pay the price for doing this to me? Who shall I address or what do I do? After one week of release, I have put down all the names of those who have been tortured, in order not to forget them.
2 p.m.
Conservative
2 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I'm sorry, Mr. Genuis. We're moving to Ms. Vandenbeld now for seven minutes, plus the consecutive interpretation time.
2 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you, Ms. Jelilova and Mr. Ali. I really want to thank you for your courage in speaking out.
In particular, we're very sorry that you have to relive some of the most difficult experiences, but I do assure you that it is making a difference that you are going on the record with this.
2 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
This is our duty.