Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 16th, 2021

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt.

I won't have time for my second question, but it's important for Canada to understand that background, because if there is any humanitarian aid, we need to understand the role and the players, etc. In future questions, if there is a way to bring up the atrocities and the rapes that were spoken about, in terms of the humanitarian support that a government like Canada can offer, could you weave that into an answer somewhere in someone else's questions?

Thanks so much, all of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

Now we're moving to the Conservatives and Mr. Scott Reid.

You have five minutes.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to pursue the Eritrean involvement for a bit longer. If there's one thing that Eritreans have traditionally felt strongly about, it's that Ethiopia is the great threat to their security. I was in Eritrea a few years ago, and I was struck that in a country that's very diverse the one thing that united everybody was their fear of Ethiopia.

Now it appears that some kind of military alliance has been forged, and I'm just trying to sort out why this happened. From the Eritrean point of view, what do they see? What's the advantage to them in strengthening Ethiopia's hold over Tigray? I would have thought they would want the opposite.

I'm not sure who I should go to for an answer on that question. It mystifies me.

[Fitsum Achamyeleh Alemu]

May I...?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Yes, please.

[Fitsum Achamyeleh Alemu]

Thank you.

I think the Eritrean government at this time had interests. The Eritrean government is an ally of Ethiopia. I'm not a fan of Isaias Afwerki, but I think he might have had a change of mind about dealing with Ethiopia. Of course, he doesn't like the TPLF leadership. He has a beef with TPLF leadership.

Backtracking, what is the cause of this immediate war? I think the Canadian government and this House should know that the immediate cause of this war is the attack on the Northern Command and that's the advocate for the Ethiopian government. I am opposed to Abiy Ahmed, but one thing that this House and everybody should know is that the immediate cause of this war is the attack on the Northern Command by the TPLF.

The TPLF has been in power in Ethiopia for 27 years. It was the leading force of the Ethiopian government, but at that time—20 years ago—the TPLF and the EPLF had a falling out, and now they are enemies, so Isaias has an interest in defeating the TPLF. Maybe at this time Isaias has another way of thinking of the Horn—I don't know—but he himself is a dictator. He might not care less about Ethiopia than Eritrea, so I think it's a complicated issue.

Thank you.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

I see that another witness has his hand up to respond.

[Tesfay Teklay]

Yes. It's just that this narrative of an attack on the Northern Command I think is misleading. The region used it to mislead the international community and garner empathy from the domestic population, but it's not true. An entire army division, with all its tanks and artillery, being neutralized by Kalashnikov-carrying militias in the regional police forces, that's untrue.

That's untrue, but regardless of who started the war, or regardless of who took the pre-emptive action, there were things preceding that day. The war didn't start on November 3. It actually started three years ago with the alliance of Isaias Afwerki and Abiy Ahmed. They have been planning this through the last three years, including involving the United Arab Emirates and Somalia. This doesn't happen overnight. This didn't happen on November 3. To create all these alliances doesn't take one day. It takes years of planning. It was—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

I have another question to ask, if I may, of the same witness, Mr. Teklay. I know I only have 30 seconds, so I'll make this brief.

It doesn't appear to be the case that the Tigrayan leadership has been trying to seek independence, which is the normal source of conflicts in this region. It seems that they were trying to hold regional elections, and that in itself was found objectionable by the regime in Ethiopia.

Is it the case that they simply don't want to have elections occurring at all?

[Tesfay Teklay]

Exactly. That's what happened.

As I said, on TV, Abiy Ahmed made a public threat to Tigray: “If you conduct an election, my army is ready for you.” He said children will die, mothers will cry and buildings will vanish.

I can send you, honourable members of Parliament, the link to the video.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Teklay.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Now we're moving to the Bloc and the member for Lac-Saint-Jean, Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, for five minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to participate in our meeting. Your efforts and patience are appreciated. The situation is extremely troubling.

I listened to all of you carefully. People will say this faction or that faction is to blame. The government members have their side of the story, and the other players have their sides.

What is happening right now is very real. People are suffering in the Tigray region. Atrocities are being committed there. Our subcommittee is conducting a number of these studies, and what we often hear is that women and children are the first victims in these kinds of conflicts. I'd like to hear your views on the matter.

Ms. Hailu Gebrekirstoes, we haven't heard from you yet, so perhaps you could shed some light on that for us.

[Christina Hailu Gebrekirstoes]

It was in French. I was not able to understand. I'm sorry.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Should I repeat the question so that Ms. Hailu Gebrekirstoes can hear the interpretation?

I hope my favourite chair isn't going to count that towards my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Christina, do you have your interpretation on the globe at the bottom of your screen where you put on interpretation in English or French?

[Christina Hailu Gebrekirstoes]

Yes. I chose English.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Are you not receiving the interpretation?

[Christina Hailu Gebrekirstoes]

No, I didn't.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I think to be fair to Alexis, if he doesn't mind asking the question in English, that would probably be most efficient for the witness and also for the proceedings of this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's up to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I will add some time, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I have no problem doing that, Mr. Chair, but only if you can confirm that the interpretation is not working. I will ask the question in English because this is a sensitive issue, as you know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes.

Clerk, if you can, let us know. Is the interpretation not working for Christina?

[The Clerk]

The interpretation is working fine.

Christina, have you clicked on the globe icon on the bottom and selected English?