Evidence of meeting #17 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ncp.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
What I would say first of all is that Canadian companies are recognized the world over for the fact that they are law-abiding and for the many steps they have taken towards voluntary processes.
I believe you have heard from the Mining Association regarding sustainable mining, but there are other examples. I would note that the Chemistry Industry Association of Canada developed “Responsible Care”, which has been adopted by, I believe, upwards of 70 countries.
6:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Do you have any concrete examples of how mining companies compete with each other? Since you promote responsible practices, I imagine you have concrete examples.
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We have a dual role in the NCP, so at once we are looking to promote the uptake of the guidelines and are working very closely with Canadian companies. As the NCP, I would not hesitate to reach out to a company to initiate a conversation about the guidelines, even if the case were not referred to me formally by an NGO. We're monitoring the situation.
We're also working with Canadian embassies overseas.
The NCP is part of a broader policy framework. We have initiatives related to natural resource governance on the foreign policy and development assistance side, and the NCP is one of those many policy instruments.
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I have.
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I do not know much about Frontera. I do know that—
6:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Ms. Moran, you just told me you had heard of them. So you know something about it, right? Given the position you hold, I imagine you're an expert on the subject.
I hope the government pays for experts who know what's happening on the ground overseas in their area of expertise.
This is your area of expertise, and you've heard of Frontera. What do you think about it?
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
What I can say is that I have followed the committee's discussion very closely and am asking questions about Frontera right now.
6:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So you didn't ask any questions until you saw the committee's study, and you didn't know about Frontera until the committee did this study. Is that correct?
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Before last week, I was not aware of the specific issues being raised.
6:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You know that Frontera is a huge problem right now. You're telling us that you learned about it last week as part of the study. Logically, what we're understanding and what you're admitting before this committee is that the National Contact Point, or NCP, and the ombudsman don't have enough authority to act in cases like Frontera.
Is that what you're telling us?
6:55 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, the NCP is a voluntary mechanism with a dual role to both promote the uptake of the guidelines and to receive cases and provide a voluntary remedy.
6:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Ms. Moran, there's nothing personal here. We're trying to help the NCP and the ombudsman to be able to act, precisely, in cases like Frontera, which is an appalling problem right now. It's a Canadian mining company, and we're actually trying to give you more power. I think you deserve to have more power to be able to act.
It's really nothing personal, Ms. Moran. I'm just trying to understand. You found out last week that there was a problem with Frontera, when you're an agency that should have power and that should have been able to act long before that.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
7 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Merci, Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe.
We'll now move to the NDP. We will hear from Ms. McPherson for seven minutes.
7 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank Ms. Moran for joining us today. I very much agree with my colleague from the Bloc who was expressing what I was thinking. We are really trying to find a way to make sure that Canadian companies are being held to account and that the good Canadian companies, particularly good extractive companies, are not punished by the bad behaviour of other companies. Really, this our us trying to get to a place where we can report to the government on what we'd like to see. It's not meant to be an attack on anyone; it's certainly not meant to be an attack on any government, even.
We have seen that the NCP was put in place before the Liberals became the government. In fact, it was in place under the last administration. I think it's important that we recognize that since the year 2000, a number of different administrations have been in government in this country.
However, I do have concerns very similar to those of my colleague, Mr. McKay, about the fact that there are 20 cases that have been brought forward. You have been in the position for 21 years—or the NCP has been acting for 21 years—and there are 20 cases, four of which are outstanding. Further to that, I guess I would ask how many times remedy has been offered through the NCP. How many times has remedy been provided?
7 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It's important to recognize that the definition of “remedy” can vary depending on the complaint. The idea of the NCP is to bring about longer-term policy changes, to find mutually agreeable solutions and to ensure that the parties are collaborating.
7 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Has any remedy been given, regardless of the definition of remedy that you're using?
7 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Well, we have resolved cases to mutual satisfaction. I would note that when we have a recommendation, the NCP follows up. In most cases, it's the company, but we look at policy changes and ensure that those recommendations have been heeded.
7 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I just want to be clear. When you say “mutual satisfaction”, is that mutual satisfaction with the company and the NCP, the company and the impacted community and the company and the CSO or NGO?
7 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It's between the parties. It's between the company, which we call the “notifier”, and the complainant.
7 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Okay. I asked because I have a 2015 OECD Watch study that says there have only been three cases worldwide since 2000 that have resulted in what they describe as “remedy”, and none of those cases have been in Canada. That's not your understanding of where the NCP has landed, is that correct?
7 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I am aware of those cases, and what I would note is that OECD Watch is looking for a certain type of damage. However, we have resolved cases that have been brought to us.
7 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Okay, they are looking for a certain type of damage. I don't really know what that means, but I'm going to carry on, if I could.
I think one of the other lines of questions that would be important to follow is about how you actually coordinate with the CORE. What does that look like, the NCP and the CORE? How does that happen?
7 p.m.
Director General, Trade Portfolio Strategy and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The CORE has just established her office, as you know. We have been working closely with the CORE to establish procedures that would allow both the NCP and the CORE to share information, and where necessary, to refer cases from one entity to the other. The procedures of both are established and we're looking for complementarity between them.