Evidence of meeting #5 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugee.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Islamic Relief Canada
Yes, I think data is absolutely crucial in the role of UNHCR and Amnesty International. Amnesty has a slightly different lens, and their work is really important for us and for you as legislators in terms of giving us data on the commitment to human rights and the respect of human rights by governments, both for their populations and refugees.
You can't do the work you do without the data they provide from the UNHCR's perspective, and with a refugee lens, they're the biggest player. Anybody who pretends anything else with refugees specifically is, in our colloquial English, having a laugh. It's really important that we recognize the importance of that data. On the importance, sure, it sounds really stupid, but it's the importance of data and facts and how essential they are for us in making the appropriate decisions for the people we're trying to serve, both here and in refugee communities.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
How do you think that data should be collected? We've talked about a number of different agencies collecting data for their own separate purposes, but we're talking specifically about COVID-related data and how we're going to eradicate COVID on the short-term basis within these refugee camps. What is the best way to collect data and to ensure we're being proactive with the health and safety of the most vulnerable of populations?
Chief Executive Officer, Islamic Relief Canada
Speaking to people right on the ground is absolutely crucial: the health workers, the volunteers. If you look at the way the refugee camps are organized, the central pillar in Cox's Bazar is these volunteers who are from within the community themselves. I know that Saad was talking about empowering and giving people opportunities to lead and to understand, to find their voice and their leadership, and they're doing quite a superb job, I think. That's what I have in mind.
I think Saad wants to come in before the 30 seconds are up.
Regional Campaigner, South Asia, Amnesty International
Thanks.
I think that's very important. As Zaid said, refugee volunteers play a crucial role in giving us this data, but at the same time, I think humanitarian agencies such as MSF/Doctors Without Borders also have a role, as well as the UN agencies. All those different datasets help us determine the needs.
Liberal
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
For our two witnesses, have either of you visited Bhashan Char?
Chief Executive Officer, Islamic Relief Canada
I haven't. I know the place, but I haven't visited.
Regional Campaigner, South Asia, Amnesty International
We've made the request to the Bangladeshi government. Not just Amnesty but a group of international human rights organizations made this request after August of this year, but no, we haven't had the chance to visit the island. It has been off limits.
Our call has been to ensure unfettered access for rights organizations and development, and for all the organizations, to do their independent assessment before the refugees are able to relocate. It's important and crucial not just for the safety and the voluntariness, but also for the feasibility of running an operation in this shared area between the mainland, Cox's Bazar and Bhashan Char island.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I think you're right to be concerned. While you were giving your testimony earlier, I looked up Bhashan Char. It is a mud flat that was not in existence 14 years ago; it was essentially silt washed down during a flood. It strikes me, all other considerations aside, that if there were a cyclone, I assume that the lives of every person on that island would be at risk. It doesn't appear to me, from looking at the island—I've got it up on Google Earth on my computer right now—that it would be possible to evacuate a significant population in the short time that would be involved.
Perhaps I'm overstating things, but leaving other considerations aside—such as sanitation issues, which would be very difficult in a place that's a mud flat—it strikes me that lives are being put at risk by the very fact that they are being sent to that island.
Am I exaggerating the seriousness of the situation? I haven't raised the issue of isolation. Everybody there would be very isolated, which is a separate concern with regard to them being able to express concerns about their treatment, being able to leave if necessary and their access to emergency or health services.
I've given you a lot there. Perhaps I can ask you to respond.
Chief Executive Officer, Islamic Relief Canada
No, you haven't exaggerated your concerns at all, Scott. It's really not a feasible idea. Bob Rae mentioned it when he was speaking as Canada's special envoy to the Rohingya crisis, and he concluded with almost exactly your conclusions. It's not suitable at all.
Regional Campaigner, South Asia, Amnesty International
I would just add that a cyclone has not directly hit the island. That is exactly the reason, as you mentioned, it's important that the UN gets to carry out a full technical and protection assessment before this relocation happens. We don't have the scientific information you were talking about in terms of what would happen in case a cyclone hit the island. Relocation before that would be of grave concern for us as well.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Is it the intention to place all refugees on the island or just a portion of them?
Regional Campaigner, South Asia, Amnesty International
Right now the government's proposition is for about 100,000 refugees to be relocated there. As I mentioned, about 300 refugees were already moved in May. There are plans to relocate more in the coming weeks and months.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Looking at it, there are hundreds of symmetrical buildings laid out in a very tight grid. This could not have been done inexpensively. How is it being funded?
Regional Campaigner, South Asia, Amnesty International
At this time, based on the Bangladesh government's claim, it's their own funding. The Bangladesh navy has developed the island.
The concern we have been expressing for this island is that it's made solely for the refugees at this time, whereas on the mainland you have the coexistence of both the host community and the refugees. There's isolation on the island. We should have those considerations as well about the accessibility of different groups of people—humanitarian agencies, rights organization, civil society. It would really make sense to have that coordination for the refugees and for other groups of people to have that access to the island. How this would be arranged is not clear to us.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I have only 15 seconds left, so I want to ask a very brief question.
I have the impression that a well-functioning refugee camp is one that is not a camp in the manner we think of it. It's actually a place with porous borders where people can go back and forth, interact with the community around it, potentially do work, provide services, and have some kind of independent means as a result of that. That won't happen on the island. However, does that exist to some degree in Cox's Bazar?
Mr. Al-Rawni.
Chief Executive Officer, Islamic Relief Canada
Post-COVID, definitely it doesn't. Pre-COVID, it existed to a certain extent. There was some coming and going and there was some interaction between the host community and the refugee community, albeit limited. There were a lot more limits placed when the Government of Bangladesh took control.
Post-COVID, no, it's a lot less. I think I heard the word “bubble”. There's a lot less interaction, as there is in most of the world. Lockdown is really real.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Mr. Reid.
That concludes our first panel.
I want to thank you, Saad and Zaid, for coming before us. Thank you so much for all the information you were able to share with the committee.
We will suspend now while the new panel is set up. It shouldn't take too long.
Again, thank you, gentlemen.
Chief Executive Officer, Islamic Relief Canada
Thank you, everyone. Take care. Thanks for your time.
Liberal
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, everyone.
Mr. Chair, I would like to speak to you once the witnesses have left the meeting.
I see that the witnesses are no longer online.
I may be wrong, but I understood that everyone in this committee had the same amount of time to ask questions. According to what I have seen, Conservatives and Liberals have had more time. I am not blaming anyone, and I don't want this to be seen as an affront. I am just wondering.
Shouldn't it have been one question per party in the second round?
I know we have rules to follow and that it's five minutes. I'm new to the House of Commons and maybe naive, but I thought that all the parties had the same amount of time to speak in this committee. That is what I was told.