Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 26th, 2020

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

That's wonderful. Thank you. I'm glad to hear that.

I want to follow up on a media report. On this question, I would like to have both you and Mr. Hammadi respond.

The media report says that the Rohingya refugee camps in Bangladesh, Cox's Bazar and Myanmar—the Rakhine area—have had cellular and Internet connections blacked out from the outside world. Have the IRC or other service providers been impacted by this? How do you guys contact and reach out to the refugee population in there?

[Zaid Al-Rawni]

I haven't heard anything related to the blackout of cellular services. For our method of communication, mobile phones are very important, and that's how we talk, especially now, when restrictions are increased and enhanced. They are—

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Hammadi.

[Saad Hammadi]

The Internet restriction has been lifted since August 24 of this year. It certainly has had an impact, particularly during COVID-19 in terms of getting information at the right time. Right now in Bangladesh in the refugee camps, the Internet restrictions have been lifted.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Chiu.

Now we'll move to the Bloc and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for seven minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by thanking the witnesses for joining us today. I also thank them for the essential and necessary work they are doing and the dedication they have shown.

Thank you very much for being with us this evening, gentlemen.

Even before the COVID-19 crisis, refugees, migrants and displaced persons were already among the most vulnerable populations. We know that already. You have both talked about women and girls, and about gender-based violence. I would like you to go in more detail, if you can. I'm speaking to both of you, and you can decide who will comment first.

How has the COVID-19 crisis affected Rohingya women and girls in refugee camps?

[Saad Hammadi]

Zaid, do you want to go first?

[Zaid Al-Rawni]

Sure.

Unfortunately, we're dealing with communities that are the most vulnerable, and of the most vulnerable communities globally, the most vulnerable segments are women and girls. Their exposure to domestic, gender-based violence is unfortunately quite high. You can attribute that to many different factors. Amongst them is idleness, the fact that the family members, whoever is with them, have nothing to do. Along with that there's the tension and stress. There are a bunch of factors, so they're more vulnerable.

There is also access to sexual and health-based rights, which is, unfortunately, even more restricted. Women and girls in a normal society like ours here in Canada have access to all the hygiene equipment they need. It's accessible. They have access to planning their families, when and how they will have children, or whether they will have children. They have so many choices. Many of those choices, unfortunately, do not exist. They simply aren't available for many women and girls. All of these things compounded make this segment the most vulnerable group in the refugee context. That means that as humanitarian actors we have to be conscious of these high vulnerabilities and be responsive in our interventions to ensure that the most vulnerable segments in that community are serviced in the best way possible.

One of the ways to do that is through a needs assessment. That was part of the research we were planning to do this year. We wanted to see how bad this situation is and what can be done by humanitarian organizations like ours, especially since we bring unique value to the table in our shared faith values. How can we leverage that shared faith to educate men about the harmful effects of violence against women and girls and make sure that women and girls have access to sexual and reproductive health rights as a community?

The short answer is that it's a dire situation. It's very difficult, but humanitarian agencies like ours are aware that this is the most vulnerable group and a large portion of our efforts are targeting that segment as well as young children.

[Saad Hammadi]

To add to what Zaid has said, the gender component is very sensitive, particularly in the refugee camps, because women and children represent more than half of the refugee population. In various situations, including when there were hundreds of these refugees stranded in the sea, we saw that when they arrived in Bangladesh, when they were allowed to disembark, there were predominantly women and children who were on those boats trying to go to other countries in Asia per se but who had failed and had to come back.

As Zaid said, there is a tension within the camps, particularly among women with regard to the discrimination they face and their discomfort with sharing and who they will share with. Again, while UNHCR has set up some protection mechanisms, it does seem as though they are not adequate at times, something we have seen in our interviews with some of the refugees.

When I say they are inadequate, it's not because of the violence they face. What I should say is that it's not always the sexual harassment per se, but there are also smaller things, such as when they're trying to access health care and they don't know how to reach that or where to go. The information barriers, for instance, sometimes present serious constraints for families led by women when the, let's say, mother of the family has to deal with this situation.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Hammadi.

You are on the ground and have contacts everywhere. So you are in a better position to tell us.

Over the long term, what will be the impact of COVID-19 on Rohingya refugees and migrants in refugee camps?

[Saad Hammadi]

I think it all goes to that area about how you empower the refugees to speak about their concerns, and that goes for all the genders, for men and women, for old and young, for all groups of the population.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Now we'll move to the NDP and Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today. It's nice to see some of you who I have had the opportunity to work with before. Thank you for your eloquent interventions today. It's very concerning and very worrying, of course.

I'd like to start by giving Mr. Al-Rawni a bit more time to explain. He didn't get to answer the last question which my colleague from the Bloc asked. In particular, I'd also like him, if he could, to touch a bit on the cause of the displacement in Myanmar and the factors that are exacerbating the number of displaced people who we see in places like Myanmar.

[Zaid Al-Rawni]

Yes. Thanks so much, Heather.

The easy answer, unfortunately, is that it's directly because of Islamophobia. When we talk about hate towards minority communities, the consequence of that hate is manifested quite brutally in Rakhine today and in what's happened to the Rohingya community specifically.

Before I travelled to Myanmar, I thought it was a question of race and ethnicity. I thought that in the Rakhine communities it was the colour of their skin that was the primary issue, because of the derogatory words I saw that officials had used—“look at their skin; look at these disgusting people”—stuff which is just abhorrent to us, to our ears.

I thought that this is really a race issue disguised as an Islamophobia issue, but when I arrived and was in Rakhine State, I saw several different communities that weren't that different in their physical appearance to the Rohingya community in Rakhine State. I travelled to different parts of Rakhine State when I was there, and the only distinguishing feature of this specific community was their religious makeup, so that was quite disappointing to see.

Even inside Rakhine today, they're kind of herded into camps across Rakhine State. They've had all their farms, fishing boats and homes confiscated, and their mosques closed. They're living in these camps that, from the outside, have barbed wire and triple entry. To get to them, you have to go through a guard gate, then a second guard gate, and then a third guard gate, and I thought, “What is going on?” I've visited concentration camps in different parts of Europe as part of my own education, and they definitely had that feel. It was very horrible, with the barbed wire everywhere and guards everywhere. It was quite horrific to see.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes. It's very terrible.

We know that what's happening there with the Rohingya is not new. This is not something that started during COVID but is simply being exacerbated by COVID.

One of the things that both of you have spoken to is the fact that there will be a long tail on this, that there is a long-term impact of COVID that I think will go much further than the coming months or years.

One of my big concerns is with regard to vaccines and how we are getting the vaccines out to these camps. Right now Canada is contributing to the Covax program, but not enough. In my opinion, it's vastly underfunding what we need to be contributing to make sure that those are happening. We have heard that there is an increased morbidity of around 30% if we are not able to distribute the vaccines equitably. Can either of you talk about the need or how you would envision the vaccines getting out to areas that are so challenging to get vaccines to, areas like Cox's Bazar?

Perhaps, Mr. Hammadi, you could begin.

[Saad Hammadi]

I think it's still a little too early to determine how this will be distributed, but certainly the point you raise is going to be of major concern because of Bangladesh being a South Asian country and, on the other end of receiving the vaccines, there will be constraints because of its own challenges and limitations to address and to cater to its own population and at the same time meet the demands of the refugees and in the refugee camps.

It will also depend on the level of infection and the number of infections detected within the camps. As we have seen, that number so far is very low. It would certainly depend on the access that has been arranged by the humanitarian agencies in this situation.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Al-Rawni, do you have any comments on that?

[Zaid Al-Rawni]

I think if we move out of Cox's Bazar, which is the traditional refugee situation, and think of refugee situations like the Venezuelan refugees or the Syrian refugees, it's important to look at this through the lens of self-interest. If you have a densely populated community or group that is working in some of the most, what we call, essential services.... Now we've decided that essential services.... In many parts of the world, refugees are servicing communities through essential services, often unfortunately in the black market with no protections, but if they're not protected, the spread will just be.... It's a very good community to start from right there and from a self-interest perspective, say, “All right, let's get these guys vaccinated and looked after so the rest of society....” They're the groups who have the least capacity to social distance, to wash their hands often because they have no access to clean water, or as much clean water as you need to do the 20-second handwashing, which we're advised to do all the time.

That's the lens I would look through.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have one last question. I hope I have time for it.

In terms of Islamic Relief and of the work that you do, I was incredibly impressed with civil society organizations in Canada that were able to pivot so very quickly when COVID-19 hit. They were so innovative, so creative in how they changed their programming, really on a dime. Can you talk a little about how Islamic Relief was able to do that, and whether or not Global Affairs Canada has been able to keep up with that, and whether you have felt that they have managed that need for urgent action well enough?

[Zaid Al-Rawni]

Thankfully we have quite an agile team, and it was very easy for us to pivot both our programming and our engagement with Canadians quite quickly.

From a Global Affairs Canada perspective, if I'm being totally honest, their responsiveness has been solid. They've been listening, talking, happy to have conversations with the section, with the space. The minister has been solid, and Karina Gould has made herself available to the NGO space, to the international development actors.

However, I think we have to increase the commitment Canada is making to international development generally. I still don't think there's enough there. We're often told that's on us as people in the sector to increase awareness of the importance of this so there is more support for this across Canada, and across party support across Canada. While that's true, I still think it's important that the government take the step to meet our obligations to the OECD.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Now we're moving to our second round of questions, and these will be for five minutes.

Members, we only have time for two questioners, and the first will be the Liberals with Ms. Khalid, and the second will be the Conservatives with Mr. Reid.

Ms. Khalid, please, you have five minutes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Zaid and Saad, for all your amazing work throughout the years with all that you do.

I would like to follow up on a number of things you've spoken about.

Mr. Hammadi, you spoke about data and the lack thereof. I ask you, and maybe Mr. Al-Rawni can pitch in a bit later, what the role is of the UNHCR and of Amnesty International in collecting data and understanding how COVID is spreading through internment or refugee camps like Cox's Bazar, among many others across the world. What do you think the role of data collection could be in curbing that spread, but also in administering vaccines?

[Saad Hammadi]

I think UNHCR is the central agency for refugee management in the camps in Bangladesh. Certainly, they have their own dataset in identification of the refugees. Each of the refugee families has their own identification numbers, and that's used to determine the different sets of information that is required, whether it's with regard to protection, whether it's required to be vaccinated, or for health needs. That is also done in coalition with other UN agencies such as the World Health Organization.

It really depends on the service you're looking at. If it's about children, then of course UNICEF comes in, but then there are all these agencies that work together.

Different sectors have been created in the camps, such as health, education, gender and other areas. These sectors have multiple humanitarian agencies working together to determine the problems and needs assessments, so that arrangement is there.

Amnesty looks at the rights component and sees what is more important. For instance, at the beginning of 2018, our campaign was focused on access to education for the Rohingya children, but with the emergence of COVID the priorities shifted to the participation of refugees in the different areas where they don't have a voice. We realized this is a central component in determining the concerns.

I'll end there so Zaid can speak.