Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

That's why I said “small”.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Graham, I have a question for you. You told us about the important study that you and your colleagues have undertaken, and I find that very interesting. It would help me to understand better the significance of those studies if I had a better understanding of how many people are involved. I understand that 5.5 million refugees out of the total Venezuelan population of something under 30 million are mostly in Colombia and that there are also some in Peru and Brazil. Perhaps you could give us a sense of proportion.

[Jimmy Graham]

Our study essentially used labour market data from each of the countries. It was comprehensive in scope and we were able to use representative data. We were able to look at essentially the entire refugee population in both Colombia and Peru, which was some two million in Colombia and close to one million in Peru. We saw, as I said, the 50% income gap before the crisis, which is huge, and then much more impact on those refugee populations as a result of the crisis.

These really big gaps in income and these big effects are national in scope. I think it speaks to the widespread nature of the impact of COVID on refugees in these countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Van Popta.

Now we'll move over to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for about three and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A big thank you to the witnesses. We will have to say goodbye right after my question.

According to the latest report produced by Human Rights Watch, more than 5 million Venezuelans have fled to neighbouring countries. They brought diseases that had already been eradicated in those regions, such as measles. As a result, the host countries' health systems were already struggling to meet the needs of migrating Venezuelans before the COVID-19 pandemic.

How have those host countries been meeting the health needs of Venezuelans who left their country?

Do you have an answer for me?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

As I said earlier, typically around the world the majority of refugees end up being hosted in neighbouring countries, and because of the regions in which these crises are situated, many of those neighbouring countries have themselves deep structural economic and social challenges that they're reckoning with, including health systems that lack capacity.

In the region that we're talking about this evening, one of the things that we've had to do is try to support local health authorities in order to address the impact of COVID. We've done that in a number of ways, in some cases by building facilities and providing units in which to do quarantines and to isolate people, and also to treat people. Another way we've done that is by providing capacity support and development to local health authorities, and we've also provided equipment and essentials for medical responses.

If in a country like Canada we find ourselves at moments during the peaks of this pandemic having to seek assistance and support and scramble to get the basics that are required, you can only imagine what the situation would be like in countries with systemic problems.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In addition, diseases that had been eradicated in those countries are resurfacing owing to the flow of migrants. That situation is not currently taking place in Canada.

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

No, I'm not sure that it would be fair to say that the migrants or the refugees or asylum seekers were themselves the vessels that brought illness with them to these countries, but certainly weak infrastructure and problems with water, sanitation and health facilities that lack capacity are only going to provide further challenges for the authorities.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I completely agree with you, but saying they would bring diseases could heighten xenophobic sentiments toward migrants. That's beginning to be dangerous for them.

That is what I wanted to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Now we're going to be moving to Ms. McPherson, our last questioner, for about three and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think I will follow up on some of the questions that got a little bit cut off previously.

In terms of prioritizing the humanitarian aid and in terms of how we should be rolling this out, could you talk a little bit about whether or not it would be most valuable to have that humanitarian aid go to Venezuela so that the refugees could return to their communities or their country, or would it be more valuable for us to give that aid to the countries hosting these refugees? That question is for both of you.

Could you talk a little about the mechanism, whether that would be through a multilateral or bilateral channel, whether we'd be using CSOs or whether we would be using local organizations? I'll pass it back to you and ask for your comments.

[Jimmy Graham]

I can start. I'd say there's a role for both multilateral and bilateral aid.

I think the multilateral side has had the best track record with doing the kind of work that I was talking about in terms of creating compacts that move the policy agenda forward, specifically through the World Bank. I think that's a good vehicle for supporting governments directly in addressing things like ailing health systems. I think supporting governments directly is the best way to push forward on the policy agenda, but I think there's also a scope for bilateral aid agencies to do that as well. For example, the Ethiopia compact was a combination of the World Bank and what used to be DFID from the U.K.

So that I don't hog the time, I'll pass it over to let Ms. Jamous Imseis move forward with the rest.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm so sorry that my name pronunciation has not been fantastic, but, Rema, could you comment?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

Not to worry.

I'll just answer the first part of your question on whether the support should go first to Venezuela or to the neighbouring countries. I'd say both in equal measure, because you have dire needs whether inside the country or outside of the country. Either of those two would be a fantastic place to provide support and additional resources.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

If you had to say whether the multilateral or the bilateral approach was the best mechanism to provide that aid, do you have any comments on that?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

I would say that at the moment we're very fortunate, because we've learned from previous emergencies that the best way to respond is to do so comprehensively and in partnership between the UN and local organizations.

We have, for Venezuela, as Mr. Graham mentioned earlier, a combined appeal that contains all of the requirements that are needed for the emergency response, and that's for NGO partners as well as UN actors. That's the regional refugee and migrant response plan. That would be a place where you could find the various elements required and the associated resources that would be needed to deliver them.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you. That's your time, Ms. McPherson.

On that, on behalf of all committee members, the clerk, the interpreters and everybody else who's been joining us here this evening, we want to thank you for your testimony and for the answers you've provided to the many questions. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Now, members, this will conclude this session. I want to remind everybody that the deadline for nominees for the women human rights defenders recognition is tomorrow, December 4, as we agreed.

That should be it for the evening. I'm going to ask for consent to adjourn so that we can all get to our families. Thank you, everybody. Have a good evening.

The meeting is adjourned.