Evidence of meeting #7 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was myanmar.
A recording is available from Parliament.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Thank you.
Could I just ask one of the other witnesses to comment on this? Perhaps, if I have to choose, Ms. Maung could comment.
7:10 p.m.
Myanmar Researcher, Human Rights Watch
Yes. Thank you.
I mentioned before that factors such as lack of testing and resources are definitely an issue, and absolutely, as Mr. Rae says, so are the stigma for people to go ahead in crowded camps and the fear of officials. The context in Myanmar specifically is that most of the situation has been caused by conflict, and that's conflict between the ethnic armed groups and the Myanmar Tatmadaw. When you have government officials coming into the context of IDPs having to seek health resources, that's really a frightening prospect for them. They don't want to be separated from their families. They fear that.
I also wanted to just quickly mention something about access to health care. This context has not been created by COVID-19, but has been compounded. If we talk about women and girls pre-COVID, we found that just 7% of Rohingya women were managing to get access to maternal health care, and now, because of COVID, we have absolutely no idea what that statistic is, but we can intelligently assume that it's much lower.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you.
Now we'll move over to the Bloc, with MP Brunelle-Duceppe for seven minutes.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I thank all the witnesses for being here today to address this very important issue.
I will come back to Myanmar very quickly in a few moments.
We spoke about the genocide of the Uighur people in Xinjiang committed by the Chinese Communist Party. I didn't think I would be talking about this, but I will, since my Liberal and Conservative colleagues have done so.
Mr. Rae, you just told us that we need more evidence and more field observations. However, a subcommittee of the House...
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, I know I let it go a bit with other questions, but if you could, please keep the scope to Myanmar and Venezuela and COVID.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Chair, you should have stopped my colleagues before. That's not fair. Since my colleagues have talked about it, I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to do so.
If you agree, I will proceed quickly and then I will move on to my questions about Myanmar.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
A House of Commons subcommittee, which will be producing a report very soon, has issued a statement stating bluntly that there is a genocide of the Uighur people.
It's not every day that we receive a Canadian ambassador to the United Nations.
In that capacity, do you agree with the statement of the House of Commons Subcommittee on International Human Rights that genocide is currently being committed in Xinjiang by the Chinese government against the Uighur people?
7:15 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Duceppe, in my opinion, the issue is determining what the next steps should be.
I have a lot of respect for Parliament. I was a member of Parliament and a committee member for many years. We did the same for the Rohingya; Parliament made a statement.
However, in the international arena, the question is to determine what the next step will be and how we will get there. For the Rohingya, for example, we supported Gambia in going to the International Court of Justice. We also offered assistance in finding the facts on the ground, because that was important.
It is precisely because we have great respect for the opinion of Parliament that I have said, and continue to say, that we must try to convince the international commissions to find more facts on the ground. This is the next natural step that we have to take.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
7:15 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thank you.
7:15 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I will read it with pleasure, as I read the others.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Perfect.
I apologize to the witnesses who are here today to talk to us about Myanmar. I will return to the main topic.
My question is for Mr. Rae.
In Bangladesh, the government forcibly transfers Rohingya refugees to an island that is deemed dangerous by the UN Refugee Agency, UNHCR, and the World Food Programme—thus by the UN.
Normally, the island should be able to accommodate 100,000 people. It is said that there are about 1 million Rohingya in Bangladesh. Bangladesh says that all transfers are voluntary, except that many personal accounts deny this and reveal that the army beats people and forcibly transfers them.
I'd like you to expound on what I just said. Is this true? What do you think about this?
7:15 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I saw the same photos and the same film as you. I was troubled by what I saw.
Two important things need to be said. First, Canada insists that UN committees be allowed to visit the camp on the island of Bhasan Char to see the conditions in which people live. Even when I was special envoy, I spoke with Bangladeshi government officials and told them that there was a process to be followed. So far, the government has not accepted this important point.
There are currently 300 people in the refugee camp on the island of Bhasan Char. The government of Bangladesh has said it is ready to send them back to the Cox's Bazaar camps, because they are not on the island on a voluntary basis, obviously.
The Bangladeshi government says publicly that it accepts the principle. For me, it is not a matter of principle, it is a matter of knowing exactly what is happening on the ground to make sure that people go voluntarily. It's a very important issue.
7:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I agree, but in this context, how can Canada intervene? What can be done?
7:20 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Our government is working with other governments, particularly those of France and the U.K., who are major donors and funders in the camps, to tell the government of Bangladesh that we want to have a more transparent and clearer process. Discussions are ongoing. That's all I can say. Canada is there.
7:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Perfect. I have one more quick question.
You may recall that in 2018, the House of Commons unanimously passed a Bloc Québécois motion to strip Aung San Suu Kyi of her honorary citizenship for refusing to condemn the abuses against the Rohingya.
Do you feel that taking away this leader's honorary citizenship has helped to improve or worsen the situation?
7:20 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It didn't make much difference.
7:20 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
On the other hand, just like you—I know that—I personally attach a lot of importance to Canadian citizenship.
7:20 p.m.
Bloc
7:20 p.m.
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations (UN) in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Not at all. We are continuing our efforts, as are other governments. We are not the only government to have responded very strongly to the events in Myanmar.
As for Aung San Suu Kyi, I haven't spoken to her since, but I know she has work to do in her country. She has just been re-elected.
The most important issue at the moment is to create conditions for a dignified return of the Rohingya population.