Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Jan. 31st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm here on behalf of Ms. McPherson and I've been in touch with her office.

I'll accept Mr. Trudel's motions as notices, because we just passed routine proceedings saying that 48 hours' notice has to be given for substantive motions.

Mr. Oliphant's suggestion is a good one. Having briefings, whether it's in one meeting or two, from very well-respected individuals and institutions to bring everyone up to speed on the world situation is great.

Members of this committee, maybe through their P9s, can chat offline with some of their ideas and come up with formal notices of motions, which can then be considered at a future in camera meeting.

I'm worried that if we go to an in camera meeting now, we're not giving Ms. McPherson the opportunity to fully participate in that conversation, when she is going to be the permanent member of this committee. I want to make sure that she has that courtesy to share some of her ideas for a study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Go ahead, Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

What Mr. MacGregor just mentioned—that we wait for one of our permanent members—is very reasonable. That doesn't preclude us from accepting what Mr. Oliphant said could start us off. I don't know if we're meeting next week. If we are, that might be a way to start.

I'm also personally partial to Mr. Trudel's motions. I'm not against hearing other people's motions, but I'm definitely partial to his motions.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I know that this committee runs a little bit more informally than others, but we have a motion on the floor that is not debatable with respect to going in camera. We should follow our procedure and do that, because if we get into a long debate, I think that becomes unfair to others. If you have another chance with a dilatory motion, we would set a precedent that you could debate them. I think that's nervous-making.

The second thing is that I wasn't clear whether Mr. Trudel moved those motions or was giving notice of them. I believe that because we're in committee business, he can move them, even without 48 hours' notice, because it is committee business. He has the right to move them, but I would hope that maybe he might just hold back because we haven't been able to see them.

I think they're important motions. I don't think anybody disagrees that we should study Haiti and the Tigray region of Ethiopia. I think we're going to be all 100% in agreement with that. It's just trying to get us into a position where we can do that in good form and good work so that we can continue to build the momentum of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Given that we do have a motion, should we proceed with the motion first, because it is a dilatory motion?

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

May I speak, as I'm the one who put the motion?

In fairness to Ms. McPherson, we could perhaps have these discussions informally in the course of the week if we know that the committee is in agreement to have some of the key human rights organizations brief us for the first meeting or two. I think it probably would be okay that we not have the in camera discussion today but rather adjourn. Then we could have these discussions informally amongst ourselves and come back at a later date so that Ms. McPherson would have a chance to participate.

That would be okay with me, if that was the will of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Go ahead, Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I would agree with that, Ms. Vandenbeld.

First of all, I want to say that I'm excited to join this committee. Like my colleague Mr. Viersen, I'm new to the committee. I like some of the ideas that have been suggested so far about informal briefings to give us the overview of the landscape. My understanding, having spoken to a number of former parliamentarians who have sat on this committee, is that this committee works best when, as one member said, it operates on the basis of consensus. I'm excited about this committee in part because I understand that this tends to be its operating mantra. It's less partisan than some of the other committees on the Hill.

There are other benchmarks of this committee that I think have made it strong. Typically, the topics that it studies seek to be focused and narrow. Mr. Oliphant and I were on the Canada-China committee in the last Parliament. Of course, big topics take a long time to study. At times we attempted to break down the work so that we could get through it by staying focused. I think that's a good rule for this committee to follow.

Number two is that issues aren't used as proxies. They're for studying an issue in a specific location or country. We stick to that and try not to deviate with proxies so that, again, we are focused on the topic at hand.

The third point, which actually comes from experience, is that this committee should focus on topics where Canada can have an influence. We're not just putting out studies that are important; they also have an impact as well.

I'm going to try to be guided by those ideas. I'll reiterate what my colleague Mr. Viersen said. I would like to see us invite Mario Silva, a former parliamentarian who sat on this committee. I believe he would be able to enlighten us, as someone who was on the committee and was well regarded, I think, across partisan lines. The other is our colleague Scott Reid. Mr. Reid continues to be a member of Parliament, but I think he too is well regarded in this field. He was a long-time member of this committee.

If I could maybe twin this suggestion with Mr. Oliphant's, we could begin by hearing from these two, one former and one current parliamentarian, to come in and brief us at our next meeting for 30 minutes and some questions—45 minutes or whatever members here think is appropriate. That would kind of set the table as to how we can operate to be effective, to work together in a constructive manner and to find topics that we think this committee and perhaps this country can influence.

Those are my suggestions. They are presented to allow us to work well together.

Thank you.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, if we are going to continue the discussion, then I actually—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Ms. Vandenbeld, perhaps we could just, for one second, defer to the clerk as to whether or not we do have a motion and we have to proceed with a vote.

If she could clarify that, it would be very much appreciated.

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

At this point, we may not actually have the capacity to go in camera. We would need a separate link, at this point. I'm not sure there's anyone around who can actually create that meeting. It may be a moot point. We've been kind of looking for someone to be able to create that meeting, but so far, no luck.

I'm not sure what the committee would like to do. I'll put it back in your hands at this point.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have put forward my motion on going in camera. It was on the predication that we would just adjourn and have these discussions more informally. Now that the discussion has continued, there are, in fact, other proposals that I would love to put. One, for instance, is to have Irwin Cotler, but that gets us into a whole discussion while we're not in camera. I think it would be better, as this committee has always done, to hold off then, to adjourn and to have this meeting in camera where we can discuss a little bit more informally and freely the different ideas being proposed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is it your intention to bring a motion to adjourn the committee, Ms. Vandenbeld?

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It is not—

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I'll bring the motion forward.

I move to adjourn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Do we now proceed to a vote?

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, you can simply see if there's consent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is there anyone against the motion to adjourn?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Trudel might have a comment.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes. If I may—

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Chair, a point of order is not debatable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes, I know.

Is there anyone against the adjournment, at this point?

I see no one against it, so this meeting is adjourned.