Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Jan. 31st, 2022

[The Clerk]

Give me a second to fix the problem.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I can read them the routine motions in both languages because I have them in front of me.

[An hon. member]

No need for that.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

In any case, the interpretation problem remains.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I believe it is working now.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'll go back to the beginning of the most recent one.

Regarding “Access to In Camera Meetings”, I move:

That, unless otherwise ordered, each committee member be allowed to be accompanied by one staff member at in camera meetings and that one additional person from each House officer’s office be allowed to be present.

Regarding “Transcripts of In Camera Meetings”, I move:

That one copy of the transcript of each in camera meeting be kept in the committee clerk’s office for consultation by members of the committee or by their staff; and that the analysts assigned to the committee also have access to the in camera transcripts.

Regarding “Notice of Motion”, I move:

That a 48-hour notice, interpreted as two nights, be required for any substantive motion to be moved in committee, unless the substantive motion relates directly to business then under consideration, provided that: (a) the notice be filed with the clerk of the committee no later than 4:00 p.m. from Monday to Friday; (b) the motion be distributed to members and the offices of the whips of each recognized party in both official languages by the clerk on the same day the said notice was transmitted if it was received no later than the deadline hour; (c) notices received after the deadline hour or on non-business days be deemed to have been received during the next business day; and that when the committee is holding meetings outside the Parliamentary Precinct, no substantive motion may be moved.

Regarding “Orders of Reference from the House Respecting Bills”, I move:

That in relation to orders of reference from the House respecting Bills, (a) The clerk of the subcommittee shall, upon the subcommittee receiving such an order of reference, write to each member who is not a member of a caucus represented on the subcommittee to invite those members to file with the clerk of the subcommittee, in both official languages, any amendments to the bill, which is the subject of the said Order, which they would suggest that the subcommittee consider; (b) Suggested amendments filed, pursuant to paragraph (a), at least 48 hours prior to the start of clause-by-clause consideration of the bill to which the amendments relate shall be deemed to be proposed during the said consideration, provided that the subcommittee may, by motion, vary this deadline in respect of a given bill; and (c) During the clause-by-clause consideration of a bill, the Chair shall allow a member who filed suggested amendments, pursuant to paragraph (a), an opportunity to make brief representations in support of them.

Regarding “Technical tests for witnesses”, I move:

That the clerk inform each witness who is to appear before the committee that the House administration support team must conduct technical tests to check the connectivity and the equipment used to ensure the best possible sound quality; and that the chair advises the committee at the start of each meeting of any witness who did not perform the required technical tests.

Finally, regarding “Linguistic Review”, I move:

That all documents submitted for committee business that do not come from a federal department or Member's offices, or that have not been translated by the Translation Bureau be sent for prior linguistic review by the Translation Bureau before being distributed to members.

That's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Ms. Vandenbeld.

I take it that there's unanimous consent to all of those routine motions.

(Motions agreed to)

I guess we should turn to the clerk. How would you like us to proceed?

[The Clerk]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, it is up to you and the members of the subcommittee to decide. You're currently under the rubric of committee business, or subcommittee business in this case, so if members have other things they would like to bring forward at this time, this would be appropriate, but I leave it in your hands.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I understand that Mr. Viersen was first.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

This is my first time on this committee. I see that there are folks who have been on this committee before.

It would be interesting to start out with a bit of a history of the committee and bring in some of the influential people who have been here, the legends of this committee, to hear their thoughts. That would help bring together what we would like to pursue and how to pursue it, some of the things that have been studied in the past and work that may have been left undone that might need to be followed up or looked at. That's the direction that I was hoping for in our first meeting.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Viersen. It's good to know that there's someone else who is new to this committee, given that a few of the members have previously served on this subcommittee.

I guess we can now open it to members who might want to speak to that.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I have Mr. Oliphant, followed by Monsieur Trudel, who is followed by Ms. Vandenbeld.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Also, Mr. Williamson is after Ms. Vandenbeld.

Please proceed, Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

We may at one point want to have a discussion about bringing in studies that were discussed at an in camera meeting in the previous session. That could be helpful, but I'd like to build a bit on Mr. Viersen's thought.

We could come up with a shopping list. We all have our areas of concern. There are geographical areas. There are always gender issues. There are demographic issues. There are a lot of areas of human rights, and they could be about freedom of religion or beliefs.

What I was wondering about, though, maybe in addition to having in some of the luminaries who have been on the committee before—I've sat on the committee, not as a luminary, but many years ago as a permanent sub, and was involved in a lot of studies—is getting some expertise from some of the leading human rights people or organizations in the country. I was wondering about maybe having a meeting to get some flags from Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International, or even from UN organizations that deal with human rights, domestic and international, and to give them a chance to help to build our agenda.

It sort of builds on Mr. Viersen's comment to say that if we could take even one or two meetings where we invite some people—and we could invite them to do something in writing too—it also builds our rapport with the expert witnesses who we'll be calling on throughout the life of the committee. There's hardly ever a study we do where we won't want to bring in Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the Latin American Working Group or various groups that we know of in the field. This would just help us, as new members of the committee, to build some relationships with them so that we could have a very good working relationship first, as opposed to tonight coming up with a shopping list and voting on each of them. I'd like to step back for at least one or two meetings to say, “Help us.” We build an agenda, we hear the flags and then we're able to do some pretty intensive work. That would be my suggestion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

I have Mr. Trudel.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would tend to agree with my colleague as well. We did do some research and looked at the topics we wanted to discuss. We even sent two motions to Madam Clerk, which I could read to you. I don't know if she received them. In my opinion, subcommittee members will reach a consensus on these two topics.

Have you received what we sent you, Madam Clerk? May I read them out? I imagine it's all right.

With respect to the topic of the first motion, I believe the subcommittee addressed this in the last Parliament. It concerns the situation in Tigray Province, Ethiopia. It's getting a lot of media coverage.

I would therefore like to move that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the humanitarian crisis and human rights situation in Ethiopia with particular attention to the situation in Tigray Province, that the committee hold two meetings on this issue; and that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.

This is a serious humanitarian crisis. About 91% of the population in Ethiopia's Tigray Province is on the verge of starvation, and the United Nations is reporting egregious human rights violations. This is a worthwhile and important topic that we could discuss. We could also refer to the studies already carried out by the subcommittee in the last Parliament.

The second topic is timeless and significant. It concerns Haiti, a country whose people have a hard life. Since I was a child, every time we have heard about Haiti, it was because of a problem and it was always difficult. Here is the motion:

I therefore move that, pursuant toStanding Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study on the humanitarian, social, political and economic crisis currently facing Haiti and the human rights situation in that country, that the committee hold two meetings on this issue, and that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.

Haiti was already grappling with earthquakes and an economic crisis, and now it's street gangs who have literally taken the Haitian government hostage. That's made life harder for those most in need in an already struggling country. Then another earthquake hit. I feel there has to be a way for us to look into this and hear from some interesting witnesses.

So those are the two interesting topics that the subcommittee could discuss over the next few weeks and months.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Could I just make a point of order, Mr. Chair?

The committee was not formed. We do not have those motions. They are appropriate to be presented at a business meeting. We're now in committee business, and we just don't have them in front of us. I don't disagree with either of them, but I also, you know, could come up with 32 areas. That's what I was trying to avoid.

I just wanted to say that we don't have those in front of us in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm not even sure whether the clerk has received those motions.

Has the clerk received those motions?

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have received them, and I have flipped them all to your personal accounts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay.

But yes, we weren't aware of this and did not receive ample notice, even though, as Mr. Oliphant indicated, they are obviously serious issues that may very well be of interest.

Let's go to Ms. Vandenbeld.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you. I think this may also help with the issue about the motions.

First, Mr. Chair, thank you so much for recognizing some of us who've been on the committee for some time. This is now my third Parliament being on this committee, including chairing it for some time in 2018-19. It is a very special committee. Throughout the time this committee has existed, through many decades and many chairs, it has always operated on a consensus basis, in my experience, and much less formally than other committees. As long as I've been on the committee, I've never actually seen a vote. It has been very much that we will discuss amongst us as individuals, most of us with very strong backgrounds in human rights, and try to come to an agreement on things where we all have a consensus.

Mr. Trudel, the two topics you mentioned, Haiti and Tigray, Ethiopia, are both on my list too.

It's been the practice of the committee to go in camera and discuss.... Usually, with something like that, we are very quick to come to an agreement.

There have been three ways in which I've seen the committee operate with studies. Usually, we've had thematic studies that we've done over a longer term. For instance, media freedom was one. Women human rights defenders was another, which led to some changes in the government in the human rights defenders stream of immigration. Many of our recommendations have been implemented.

We have typically interspersed those with country-specific short studies, particularly on emerging countries. Right now, we may have a plan set up for a month or two and then something happens like Burkina Faso, which is very urgent. There are people who need voice given.... We may interrupt what we were planning in our longer study to do a short study and air some of the human rights defenders in that region. Usually, we do this in a very informal way.

Let me emphasize why this committee is so vitally important. I have had witnesses who have come before this committee to tell me the only reason they believe they are not in jail today is because of the platform we gave them and the international recognition and safety that comes with that. I've had other witnesses who have said that it's given such a boost to their movement. They've been able to re-engage with young people at a time when their movement may have been waning. It's a very powerful committee.

Might I suggest that we go in camera and throw out some of these ideas that we have? They could be some of the geographic, but also thematic ideas. We could come up with what we want to do for the next few meetings.

I very much like Mr. Oliphant's idea of hearing from some of the key organizations. I think many of us are also members of the Raoul Wallenberg parliamentary group. There have been some suggestions there.

Perhaps we should go in camera and we could have a more informal discussion. We would probably find agreement about which areas we want to do first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Absolutely. Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld.

Go ahead, Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I know I was up next to speak, so I was motioning to that, but I am happy to second that we move to in camera, if members would like to do that.

I would assume my speaking spot as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Do we want to take a vote as to whether we go in camera? Is there anyone who does not agree to go in camera?

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Chair, could I speak before we go to any vote?