Evidence of meeting #12 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was iran.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President and Spokesperson, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims
She said that she would go back to the cabinet and talk to other ministers to make a decision about the IRGC.
As I said, it is a mystery. We know that in 2018 there was a parliamentary motion to put IRGC on a list of terrorist organizations.
They have killed 138 passengers heading to Canada: What could be done that would be worse than this? I don't know.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
The minister certainly could be reminded that she was one of the members of Parliament who voted for that motion in 2018, along with the Prime Minister, and yet no action has been taken. It's completely unacceptable.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
Thank you, Mr. Cooper, for returning a bit of time.
We now go to Mr. Trudel, of the Bloc Québécois, for four minutes.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Ms. Shafipour.
Ms. Shafipour, you used some pretty strong language in your opening statement. You said that Canada worked for the Iranian government. That's a pretty strong statement. You spoke a bit about why you thought that. You said that nationals who were members of the Iranian government lived in Canada and that you didn't understand how that was allowed. Mr. Esmaeilion also mentioned it.
Could you elaborate on what you meant exactly?
As an Individual
Thanks for your question.
I want to give you an example. My so-called judge was listed as the 19th person to be sanctioned by the Canadian government under the Magnitsky act. Just imagine: He murdered thousands of people. He destroyed the lives of thousands of people, and he can freely come to Canada and be your neighbour. He can invest blood money and buy, I don't know, many apartments in your neighbourhood.
I have a specific question for Mr. Trudeau because I used to be his fan, as a kind of freedom lover: How would you feel if, for example, Mr. Salavati was your neighbour and lived in the same place, in the same apartments, that you lived in with your family?
It's so weird. I can't understand why Canada just does nothing about that. I don't know how I can explain my feelings. I'm really disappointed.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Other than banning members of the Iranian government who may be our neighbours, what would you like Mr. Trudeau to do?
If the Prime Minister were here right now, what would you say to him? What would you recommend he do?
As an Individual
As I mentioned, it's not only about human right violations in Iran. It's also about Canada's domestic security, and it's a very serious issue. I'm afraid that you will remember my words when some disaster happens. I don't think it's very far from us. They are murderers. They are terrorists.
For example, I think the Canadian government would recognize IRGC as terrorists when they murder white people or something like that. I don't know. It's so weird, and I'm so disappointed.
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Mr. Sadjadpour, I'd like to ask you something, but whenever one of us asks you a question, we are almost out of time.
It's a somewhat complex question. Iran's policies are linked to Lebanon, Iraq and Syria. What are the consequences of those policies?
Senior Fellow, Middle East Program, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
I didn't hear the translation, but I think I picked it up. What are the consequences of Iran's role in the region? Essentially, Iran's regional proxies constitute an axis of misery. Everywhere Iran is, there are failing states, and Iran thrives where there are failing governments, and that is going to continue to be the case.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
Thank you.
We'll now move on to our final questioner from the NDP.
Ms. McPherson, you have four minutes, please.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all of the witnesses who are here today. I know how hard this must be, in particular, Dr. Esmaeilion, for you who are sharing your testimony with us and have lost your wife and daughter. It is heartbreaking. Thank you for continuing to be the voice of the community and continuing to be so strong.
As many people will know, many of the victims on that flight were from Edmonton. Many of them were from the University of Alberta community. I feel like we wore a lot of that pain with you. Certainly, in 2020, I brought forward a motion in the House that was given unanimous consent. It talked about the need for the government to do more to stop the harassment of the victims of PS752 in Canada. That's one of the things that's most disheartening. I'm not sure we've seen action on that.
Dr. Esmaeilion, I'd love it if you could talk a bit about that. When you met with Minister Joly, you said there was no road map for you, that there was no road map for the survivors and no way forward. Could you also talk about what that road map would look like for you?
President and Spokesperson, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims
The government has decided to go to the International Civil Aviation Organization, and ultimately to the International Court of Justice. It has decided to not try the International Criminal Court for reasons that we don't understand. The RCMP has decided not to open a criminal case.
If we're going to the ICAO, it has passed the negotiation phase, which was futile. On January 5, it said that didn't go anywhere. Now, after six months, Minister Joly calls the families and says, “Okay, now we have decided to go to the ICAO.” It makes us wonder what we have done in the last 30 months, if now it wants to go for evidence and information gathering. It means that for the last 30 months, it has wasted time, and now it wants to go to the ICAO.
Iran has its own delaying tactics to not let this case go through ICAO easily. MH17 is a good case. We have been at the ICAO several times. We lobby ICAO council members, as well as the Canadian government. We know they do nothing at the ICAO. We know the Minister of Transport hasn't done enough at the ICAO. This surprises us. The families took the burden of this case, and they published a report about this crime, but the government hasn't done enough.
In my opinion, the politicians should not be leaders in this case. They should be followers. The families should be in the forefront for decision-making, and they are not.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Basically, what I'm hearing is that we are hearing delays from the Iranian government, which we expect, but we are also seeing delays from the Canadian government, which is unacceptable, of course.
Dr. Esmaeilion, do you feel you are in danger in Canada, being the spokesperson, being the voice of the community? Do you feel that you yourself are in danger?
President and Spokesperson, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims
Yes, of course, and it's only me, but other family members as well. I filed a report with the police a few weeks ago. For instance, I had two flat tires on my car when I went to the grocery store. The police came and did some investigating, but the car was not in the range of the camera, so the case was closed.
I know the RCMP has opened an investigation, but we are not being informed. Our cellphones were taken a few times to check them, but nothing is shared with us if we are under threat or not. We see suspicious cars around our houses, but we don't see much from the government.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
We'll have to conclude there, but thank you so much for that. That was a powerful conclusion to our two hours of testimony.
On behalf of all the committee members, staff and those watching and tuning in, we wish strength to all the witnesses and steadfastness.
Ms. Moore-Gilbert, we hope you get some rest.
Mr. Sadjadpour, thank you for joining us.
Ms. Shafipour, thank you for being here also.
Mr. Esmaeilion, we personally wish strength to you and all the families you're supporting.
Our sincere condolences go to all the victims and their families.
Thank you. We will adjourn for half an hour and there will be refreshments here. We'll see see you at 6:30.