Evidence of meeting #20 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was iran.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
I apologize, Ms. Deif.
We'll continue on to our next very tight round of two minutes.
We have Mr. Aboultaif for two minutes, please.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
Thank you.
I have a couple of quick questions for Ms. O'Neill.
Why do leaders of countries with human rights violations insist on holding back women who could make a greater contribution to the well-being of their nation? Why are those leaders so unconcerned about world opinion? It seems, as time goes on, that they are less concerned as we move forward, which is very concerning on the human rights side and the women's rights side.
I would love your opinion in a very short time.
9:35 a.m.
Ambassador for Women, Peace and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
My very brief opinion on that broad question is that they're afraid of being held accountable by their own people. They have power that is tightly held, and introducing more voices leads to greater accountability, which leads to greater transparency, and that is threatening to them.
Why are they not feeling pressure? I think they're feeling pressure from some, and reinforcement and tangible support from others who share their world view and desire.
To the earlier point about networks, they are coordinated and mutually reinforcing, so lots of authoritarian governments are actually, right now, reinforcing each other and providing an alternative form of peer pressure that is actually reinforcing this type of behaviour.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
9:35 a.m.
Canada Director, Human Rights Watch Canada
I think that was adequately covered by the ambassador.
Thank you.
9:35 a.m.
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, International Civil Society Action Network
May I add a point?
9:35 a.m.
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, International Civil Society Action Network
Just very quickly, even the pressure that comes from countries that claim to care comes in siloed ways. It doesn't come in the high-security spaces; it comes in the women's spaces. It's like parallel universes that are existing, and we need to combine those.
Thank you.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
On that note, we'll conclude this round.
We'll continue with Mr. Ehsassi.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses we have.
Perhaps I could start off with the ambassador.
Thank you very much for your remarks. It was nice to see that you were specifically talking about women leaders who are now refugees. Specifically, we see lots of Afghan leaders and Iranian women leaders. Apart from the stream that was mentioned earlier for human rights defenders, are there other means by which your office is trying to assist these women leaders? Do you take an active interest in identifying them and assisting them to come to Canada?
9:40 a.m.
Ambassador for Women, Peace and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Absolutely. I think the primary role that my office can play in this is listening to them while they are here, especially about their priorities as they relate to political processes and security processes. For example, with Afghans, I've met with a number of Afghan women networks in Canada that include many new refugees, and I recognize that we have an incredible resource now of many Afghan women who have thoughts, priorities, etc.
I know you want to move on because of time, so I'll leave it there, but that is a key role—actually listening to them while they're here, to inform our government policy.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you very much.
Perhaps I can now turn to Ms. Deif.
You talked about Saudi Arabia, and how we are seeing lots of hollow reforms and a lot of image laundering. Could you provide us an update on the case of Ms. Loujain al-Hathloul, who has been such an inspiration for her leadership? We're not hearing much about her fate. Perhaps you could provide us an update on her specific case.
9:40 a.m.
Canada Director, Human Rights Watch Canada
Yes, thank you.
Loujain al-Hathloul was one of the three Saudi women's rights activists I mentioned in my earlier remarks. While released from detention, she continues to face a travel ban, so she can't leave the country. Those types of travel bans are often used.
What governments will do is try to get praise for releasing human rights defenders, women's rights defenders, while at the same time they may suffer asset freezes, travel bans and an inability to leave the country. They might have to report to a police station every night. These are the types of things that governments will do to try to create praise for their actions, while really, if you dig deep, you can see that what's happened is that it continues to be repressive and that states should continue to document it.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
Thank you for that.
We'll continue now to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two minutes.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Deif, we have seen images and reports on Afghanistan recently. A number of rumours suggest that the physical punishment of women is increasing right now, as though the Taliban feel freer to treat women that way.
Do you get the same impression?
9:40 a.m.
Canada Director, Human Rights Watch Canada
Yes, we've also heard those kinds of concerning reports in terms of lashings and other really abusive types of actions by the Taliban, who have become increasingly emboldened to do this.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
Ms. O'Neill, we know that Canada has adopted a feminist foreign policy, which is now supported by all political parties in the House of Commons.
We have seen some concrete action recently. For example, Minister Sajjan went on a diplomatic mission to Qatar for the World Cup of soccer.
Don't you think it would have been better for the Government of Canada not to attend and to diplomatically boycott the World Cup in order to send a message about women's rights?
If you think it was a good idea to attend, do you think the minister did a good job?
9:40 a.m.
Ambassador for Women, Peace and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I'm not going to comment on whether it was right or wrong to go.
I do know that he has expressed a commitment to raising difficult issues while there.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Do you think his approach will change anything in Qatar?
9:40 a.m.
Ambassador for Women, Peace and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I can't say.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay, thank you.
Regarding actions, policies and images, Ms. Deif, do you see a difference between the image Canada wants to project internationally and the action it is taking currently, with regard to women's rights in particular?
9:40 a.m.
Canada Director, Human Rights Watch Canada
It's a very large question. Yes, certainly there is very strong messaging on a feminist foreign policy, on a rules-based international order and on prioritizing human rights, but we do see that there is often a disconnect in terms of actions on the ground, particularly with states that are considered to be allies of Canada.