Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 25th, 2022

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for taking time to join us here today.

Women's rights are human rights, and they are at the heart of our foreign policy. We heard a lot of testimony about Canada's foreign policy today, and completely agree with what the well-intentioned mandate from Minister Joly is in terms of international feminist foreign policy on the world stage.

I have a few questions in terms of our international feminist foreign policy approach. I want to hear some of your thoughts on that, if you can provide some insights on that.

I know Global Affairs has committed 15% of its bilateral international development assistance across all action areas to implementing initiatives dedicated to advancing gender equality and improving women and girls' quality of life. As part of her mandate letter, Minister Joly was asked to continue developing and implementing Canada's feminist foreign policy with the support of partner organizations.

My question is this: How can the international community help promote and protect women and girls' human rights, gender equality and the empowerment of women and girls in fragile conflict and post-conflict settings?

It's open to any of the witnesses who would like to comment.

[Meghan Doherty]

Thank you. I can start.

One of the first things I would say to that is that the international community, particularly the global north, states that there must be a stop to perpetuating this false divide between development and human rights—between civil and political rights on the one hand, and economic, social and cultural rights on the other hand. The fundamental principles of human rights demand that we understand that all human rights are interdependent and indivisible, so we cannot enjoy one set of rights without the other.

Looking specifically at the context of fragile states, and in humanitarian settings, I think women's rights—in my area of expertise, particularly sexual and reproductive rights—can't be relegated only to development assistance or special conferences that focus only on women, and then they're conveniently left out when we're talking about trade deals or debt financing or arms sales or pandemic responses. You cannot separate those things, because we see how they are interconnected, so they must be part and parcel. We must be looking at the civil and political aspects as well as the economic, social and cultural rights.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Doherty.

Does anyone else want to comment?

[Julia Tétrault-Provencher]

Yes, I would like to add something.

In conflict situations or in the period thereafter, we often note that the justice system is very fragile. So investments are needed in the justice system and in the training of lawyers and judges, not only to ensure access to the justice system, but also to provide a gender perspective. Women, victims and survivors of gender-based violence must have access to information and to justice. The information must also reach the most remote communities, which in some cases are even more fragile.

The voices of survivors and victims must always be included when rebuilding or strengthening a justice system.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have one minute.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Okay. I'll quickly get to my question.

You mentioned some of the initiatives we can take, but how can the international community increase the meaningful participation of women and women's organizations and networks in conflict prevention, conflict resolution and post-conflict state building?

I have less than a minute, but I'm hoping to get a little bit of insight from you.

[Meghan Doherty]

I can start and maybe say that the intervention should happen before a conflict starts. While I appreciate there are people who have much more expertise in post-conflict peacebuilding, my area of expertise is really looking at the things we can do to intervene before we get to that crisis point.

The human rights framework, as part of the international community, provides an excellent foundation that all states should be looking at through their development assistance programs, trade negotiations and climate justice negotiations. It's about a human rights-based approach to addressing the situations in countries that are of immediate concern.

I would draw on the Office of the High Commissioner's groundbreaking work on a human rights-based approach to maternal mortality and morbidity as an excellent example of some of the things we can do to prevent those conflicts in the first place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you, Ms. Doherty.

We will continue with Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us to consider this extremely important matter and to examine the role Canada can play in it.

My question is for Ms. Tétrault-Provencher.

The study pertains to the rights and freedoms of women around the world, primarily in Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. Yet there is also cause for concern when we see what is happening to freedoms south of the border as anti-abortion laws are gaining ground. We saw this when the decision in Roe v. Wade was overturned. I know this might sound crazy, but when the decision was announced, some MPs and elected officials in Canada even rejoiced publicly and openly, judging from what we have seen on some videos.

With things like that happening in countries like Canada and the United States, is this dangerous for women in the rest of the world?

[Julia Tétrault-Provencher]

It's safe to say that there is a backlash in the United States that's being seen around the world right now. Abortion access rights are under threat. Honduras recently passed a constitutional change, as did the U.S. El Salvador also wants to impose a few more penalties.

What we are seeing in Canada, the United States and elsewhere in the world is an obvious backlash. No matter where it happens, it is dangerous. Everywhere, we must ask questions, talk about it and denounce this situation. I also think that elected officials should condemn such things.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In a way, when other countries see the United States and Canada rejoicing, it gives them an excuse to act the same way and pass anti-abortion laws.

I don't know if I'm right in thinking that. We are here to discuss this very issue. You're more of an expert than I am on the subject.

[Julia Tétrault-Provencher]

Conversely, it can also provide a pretext for creating a coalition of countries reminding others not to adopt such laws. It can become an opportunity to strengthen existing conventions, for example the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. So these conventions can be brought to the forefront and the obligations that exist can be repeated. So I also see this as an opportunity to remind people of these rights, to prevent the same situation from happening in other countries.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You spoke about access to justice during or following internal conflicts. Can you tell us more about the reparation process for survivors in the context of difficult access to justice?

[Julia Tétrault-Provencher]

We also work in contexts where there is not necessarily conflict, although there may be difficulties.

As far as redress is concerned, usually we realize that it is very difficult to obtain, especially for women and victims who are survivors of gender-based violence, and especially in the case of sexual violence. There is a lot of stigma. Women do not have access to the system and often do not trust it. There are stereotypes linked to this. Often they are also abandoned by their families.

For them, it is very difficult to access justice, first of all. Once they have access, the redress is minor or not implemented. Finally, there are no funds that exist for that, no implementation of reparation, no follow‑up in this regard. So it is very difficult for women to access reparation. In many places, reparation never happens. There is no implementation. This is particularly the case in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where we work. This often needs to be emphasized.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

As we know, rape is often used as a weapon of war. Sometimes there is an outright desire among some belligerents to destroy the reproductive organs of women. There are even regimes where it has been proven that women are currently subjected to forced sterilization. This is the case with Uyghur women in Xinjiang, China.

When people are prevented from reproducing, it is not far from a desire to exterminate populations. Can this be considered a genocidal act, in your opinion?

[Julia Tétrault-Provencher]

The definition of genocide is something found in international law. You always have to evaluate situations to see at what point you can start to consider it a genocidal act.

That said, we can also act in terms of prevention. When we see acts of this kind happening, we can understand that they are red flags and we have to act accordingly, to prevent it from going to genocide. These are certainly acts that must be taken into account. We must try to suppress them, eliminate them and prevent them.

We have to see how far these acts will go, before we can really talk about genocide in the sense of international law.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Is it already over?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Yes, unfortunately, your time is up.

We will finish with Ms. McPherson for five minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today. My goodness, I'm in my office alone in Edmonton—it's quite early here—and I wanted to yell out “Yes!” to so much of the testimony.

I also want to acknowledge particularly Ms. Hassan for the frontline role that she is playing in standing up for women's rights in Iran. Hearing what is happening in Canada and how that reach is happening in Canada.... I compliment you on your bravery. I'm so sorry that you are having to face the things that you're having to face.

[Sayeh Hassan]

Thank you.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I also wanted to ask a quick question.

Ms. Doherty, honestly, your comments comparing democracy and women's rights.... When we lose women's rights, we lose democracy and we lose so much of our capacity. I think that's very important to recognize.

One thing I do want to push back on a little bit in terms of some of the previous testimony is that we do not have a feminist foreign policy in Canada. That has not been implemented. We have a feminist international assistance policy, which is fantastic and which I helped develop, but we don't have a feminist foreign policy. That means, as you point out, Ms. Doherty, that on trade, defence and all of these things where we need to have that feminist lens, we do not.

I want to make this very clear for this testimony.

Ms. Doherty, what are the direct impacts on women when we don't use that feminist foreign policy lens on things like trade and defence?

[Meghan Doherty]

Thank you very much for the question.

In the context of trade, for example, we know that women are the lowest-paid, that they have the most precarious working conditions and that they are subject to the most exploitation. When we are talking about trade deals being made without taking into consideration the labour consideration and protections of women in particular countries or regions, we are exacerbating women's lives, their health, their security and the security of their families.

I would take the example of international financial institutions like the IMF and the World Bank, when they are going in to look at debt refinancing with a policy of austerity measures. We know that women are the most impacted by austerity measures in terms of health and social services. Unless those things are being taken into account and they are recognizing what a harmful impact those policies can have on women, it undermines a lot of the other work that Canada and other countries are trying to do to enhance women's rights.

You have to have a coherence across this range of foreign policy areas if you are serious about advocating and promoting the rights of women. It does not make any sense to only do it in one area and undermine it in another area. A cohesive policy is necessary to make that happen.