Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

Now I would like to invite Mr. Baker to take the floor for seven minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

May I speak in Ukrainian? Would that be appropriate to speak in Ukrainian if my colleagues would allow?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Yes. Go ahead.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

[Member spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

First of all, I would like to say thank you. My name is Yvan Baker. I am a member of Parliament. I am grateful for your bravery and courage, that you are today with us, that you shared what you suffered through. Please know that we will work to help you, to help Ukraine.

I would like to ask Vladyslav, Anastasiia and Kseniia this: What would you like? What are you asking us as members of Parliament? What would you like us, as politicians in Canada, to know? What would you like us to do to help children who are now in Russia or in Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories?

[Denys Berezhnyi]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

I would like the Canadian Parliament to help the Save Ukraine organizations and help in their work to return children back to Ukraine. I know some people who ended up in Russia, and I want those who want to return to Ukraine to be able to do so to. If you could help these organizations, that would be great.

[Kseniia Koldin]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

I would like add that I want more people to find out about those crimes that Russia commits against Ukrainian children—that it forcibly transfers them to Russia, that it tries to make Ukrainians become Russians—so that more people know what's going on. It was a horrible time for me to live through this, to live under their occupation, to live in Russia. I can't even compare it to anything. Thank you for listening to my story, and I'm hoping for your help and support.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

[Member spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

Is there anyone else who would like to add something to this?

[Mykola Kuleba]

If I may, I can add something.

Thank you for your questions, but it's very hard for children who have been hugely traumatized by Russians to now witness about these crimes. You've seen with Vladyslav that it's very hard for him and his mother, but they are very brave. You have to know that they are very brave, and they want to be voices for the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children who live under the Russians. We really want to free them, to return them. These brave children, really.... We can see the huge trauma that they received. Thank God that they can live now in Ukraine and can rebuild their lives.

I want to share one thing. I'm always asking them what the highlight of their story is, what the most important emotional thing that happened to them is, and all of them tell me that it is when they crossed the Ukrainian border.

Thank you.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mykola.

Mykola, I would like to come back to you, if I may.

I see that Kateryna has her hand up.

Do you want to speak, Kateryna? Please go ahead if you would like.

[Kateryna Rashevska, Legal Expert, Regional Center for Human Rights, Save Ukraine]

Thank you.

Distinguished audience, thank you for having me here.

I can add something as per the role of Canada in this process of the repatriation and rehabilitation of the Ukrainian children and of restoring justice. Canada is the head of the Group of Friends on Children and Armed Conflict at the United Nations. That's is probably enough to help us towards the United Nations General Assembly resolution on the repatriation of Ukrainian children, because we need to push the Russian Federation to comply with its international obligations.

Also, we need to recognize the political indoctrination and re-education of Ukrainian children as a serious violation of children's rights committed during armed conflict, because without this recognition, the Russian Federation will continue this policy.

Of course, we need to not only repatriate Ukrainian children but also rehabilitate them. That is why we need to support the initiative by the Trust Fund for Victims in the ICC and use their assistance mandate and implement this policy for rehabilitation and reintegration even before the verdict of the ICC.

Thank you.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Mykola, I will come back to you.

Do you have any other recommendations for us? What are things we can do as members of Parliament and people in government to support you in helping to repatriate Ukrainian children currently in Russia?

[Mykola Kuleba]

Thank you.

I met you several times in Canada. I thank you for your position and for the position of the parliamentarians who are standing with us and fighting for Ukraine. It is very important to us.

As you know, Maria Lvova-Belova, Putin's commissioner, reported that they've registered more than 700,000 Ukrainian children in Russia. We have no idea how many of them are unaccompanied. We have no idea how many of them are orphans—children who have lost their parents because they were killed by Russians—or received Russian passports or were placed in Russian families or orphanages.

These are our kids. They are Ukrainian children. Many of them cannot sleep and are dreaming about escape. I can tell you a story about a 12-year-old boy who escaped. We returned him. He told me he dreamed of escape, and he planned every night to escape. He would cross the minefields on the front line. Can you imagine a 12-year-old child planning to cross minefields?

We understand the Russian aggressor. It's very hard to win this battle, but we will win. First of all, however, we need you to put pressure on Russia to give us information about all the Ukrainian children who have been deported and who now live in Russia. We want to know what happened to them. We cannot live normally when we have no idea what happened to them.

How many of them want to come back to Ukraine? We understand that after brainwashing, many of them received Russian passports and may want to stay there with their new relatives, but there are thousands of orphans who have been deported. There are thousands of Ukrainian children dreaming of coming back, but we don't know. We have no information. That's why we at Save Ukraine are searching for any information.

We built an underground railroad to return children. We returned 200 children, but that's just a little. It's a drop. It's a sample. We need more. You can help us do this, but it is [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mykola. My time is up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Madame Bérubé, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I would like to sincerely thank all the witnesses for sharing their stories today.

You are brave, resilient and, most of all, resolute. You believe in your country. You have endured psychological and physical trauma. We want to hear your stories because everything you tell us is invaluable for our study.

The issue of parents consenting to send their children to camps in Russian-controlled areas was discussed at length with witnesses last week. We know that the way Russia obtains the families' consent is questionable.

My question is for Mr. Mezhevoj.

Is it correct to state that Russian authorities never obtained your consent?

[Yevgen Mezhevoj]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian. Interpretation in French translated as follows:]

Thank you for the question.

Of course, no one asked for my consent. I was simply told that they would be taken care of while I filled some paperwork. I got my kids on the bus, then I did not hear from them again. I was in Olenivka for 45 days and I had no news of them until May 30.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Your children were abducted and the Russian authorities and military subjected you to abuse and violence.

Can you give more details on the situation you faced? It is very important. We know that so many people in your country have experienced violence, and we would like to know more.

[Yevgen Mezhevoj]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I really understood the question. What kind of information are you looking for?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Your children were abducted. On top of that, you were subjected to violence at the hands of the Russian authorities and military.

Can you give more details on what you were subjected to?

[Yevgen Mezhevoj]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

First of all, there are constant interrogations. There is a lack of fresh air in the cells. The cells were overflowing. In the Donetsk detention centre, we were 55 or so. There was no air left to breathe. We were basically lying under the door trying to breathe. There was not enough water. We had two loaves of bread and a litre and a half of water for all of us for 24 hours. We slept on the floor. It was very hot. It was intolerable.

When we were taken to Olenivka, it was pretty much the same. We would be given dirty water from time to time. The food was disgusting—fish mixed in some kind of porridge. The dishes were dirty. We mainly ate bread.

There were no hygiene conditions. In order to use the bathroom, we had to use our own clothing. There were a lot of us in the cell. In a six-person cell, we were 55. When women were brought from Azovstal, we were transferred to the second floor. In a one-person cell, we were 28.

We were put to labour. We had to dig gardens. We were painting, cutting grass, etc., basically making repairs to jail number 120 in Olenivka.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

In the vast majority of, if not all, cases like yours, are parents forced to accept the transfer of their children in Russian-controlled areas?

[Yevgen Mezhevoj]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

You cannot accept this. You have to fight for your children. You have to use every possible way to get your children back, grasp at any opportunity, any straw. When I knew I had only five days to get my children back, I felt desperate. I knew that any mistake on my part could deprive me of my children. I was like a robot. I didn't sleep. I didn't want to do anything else. I had to get my children back, and in two days, I managed to do so.

You cannot give up. There are good people out there who will help. There are so many volunteers out there helping in different situations. You cannot stay silent. You have to call for help, move ahead and get your children back, regardless of anything.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

These children's families have to face danger and armed conflicts. It seems like parents give their consent to try to protect their children and give them an opportunity to get better food, for example.

Is that the case?

[Yevgen Mezhevoj]

[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

Indeed, parents are deceived in order to get their children. Parents are told that their children will be safe and to just send them away. I've heard about that too, but I know it's a one-way ticket.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Would you say that, in most cases, parents actually give their consent, or is it simply the safest decision, given the circumstances in which these children and their families were in?