Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Did you want to add anything, Ambassador?

Go ahead.

[Fernando Cheung]

If I may add to that, I continue to read some Chinese media in Hong Kong and I've certainly noticed that they have really exercised very heavy restraint on reporting anything that is negative about the Hong Kong government or the central Chinese Communist regime.

Journalists are walking on thin ice. They are heroes. It is extremely dangerous for them to report anything that would reflect negatively, even on things that are not political in nature. Some examples are things related to environmental protection and livelihood issues, such as lack of housing, or when they report situations of poverty and poor housing situations.

I understand that certain individual groups are not journalists yet, but advocate groups have been named by the authorities and the Hong Kong government as playing an opponent role. That warning comes as a political warning to these groups.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I have only 30 seconds left, Chair, so I'll give the time back to you. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Damoff.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you now have the floor for seven minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can also use Ms. Damoff’s remaining 30 seconds.

I’d like to thank the witnesses for being here for this important study.

I also want to thank all my colleagues serving on the subcommittee for agreeing to shake up their agenda by supporting my proposal to study Jimmy Lai’s case. I hadn’t thanked them yet.

Mr. Cunningham, you spoke in your opening remarks about measures being considered by the U.S. Congress. Can you tell the subcommittee if you are aware of any other free and democratic countries that are considering measures regarding Jimmy Lai’s case? If so, can you say how significant these are internationally and how Canada should follow their lead?

[James Cunningham]

The short answer is that we're working in a number of venues to encourage parliaments and governments to take action. It has not been as widespread as we would hope yet, but it is becoming an increasingly important conversation in various congresses and parliaments in Europe, as well as in the United States and Canada.

To go back to a discussion that we had a couple of minutes ago, in order to affect what's going on in Hong Kong, in China, on human rights and the kinds of issues that we're concerned about in raising them today, it is really important that the countries that share the values that are under attack in Hong Kong, in China, come together with a common view of how to deal with them and respond to them. This goes to everything from the economic issues we were discussing earlier, the trade issues, the commercial contacts which are under attack in Hong Kong as well, to the human rights in media and other issues.

The more that all of our countries can move towards a common understanding, not just of what is happening in Hong Kong, which is a major point of what we're trying to do, but also how to respond to it, the stronger the sense will be of not just support for Hong Kong but the message that will be sent to what is really, the core of all this, which is the Communist leadership in Beijing. They need to understand that what they are trying to do in rewriting the story of Hong Kong is not something that is going to just be accepted by those of us who care about the values that they are trying to discard there.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I want to follow up on some of my colleagues' questions about journalists and democracy advocates, but I'd like to hear from Mr. Almoghraby, who represents Journalists for Human Rights.

Mr. Almoghraby, to what extent has Mr. Lai's arrest influenced the willingness of journalists and democracy advocates to express their opinions?

[Zein Almoghraby]

Thank you for the question.

The main approach that has been implemented right now is what we refer to as "lawfare", meaning that the Chinese government is restricted but with limitations when it comes to Hong Kong, when it comes to oppressing journalists and civic actors, generally speaking.

We have to remember here that China is ranked 179 out of 180 on the press freedom index. The only country that competes with China is North Korea. They have no problem with arresting people directly and implementing the most horrible approaches, but now they are restricted in the case of Hong Kong, so they are implementing lawfare and they are implementing the misinformation campaigns. It's going to go in two directions: the continuous implementation or the utilization, taking advantage of the available laws and regulations that they can manipulate on one hand, and on the other hand, discrediting journalists and civic actors by using whatever available tools they have with social media, and then later on, spreading that misinformation and controlling the public sphere in all of Hong Kong. It's going to be gradual, unfortunately. It's rapidly increasing, so if it doesn't stop, Hong Kong is just going to become another part of China, and it's going to be competing with North Korea when it comes to oppression.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

To what extent have these same human rights journalists come under scrutiny since Mr. Lai's arrest? It's not just Hong Kong laws; some paranoia may also be experienced, since they might feel more closely monitored.

[Zein Almoghraby]

Sorry, is the question for me?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes.

[Zein Almoghraby]

The chilling effect is impacting everyone. Also, the tricky part about it is the fact that there are—I don't want to say rumours, but people do exaggerate what the Chinese government possesses. They do possess a lot of technologies, a lot of capabilities. Then we add more to it, and people start recirculating these misconceptions about what they're capable of doing, including the fact there is now the thinking that wherever you are, with anything that has electricity in it, there's a possibility for the government to listen to you.

The fear now is spreading. We are being sent back to the 1980s and to the 1970s before that, and whether it's in China or the eastern socialist bloc in Europe, we're going back decades in time where people think that walls have ears.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rogers, you touched on the issue of trial credibility. Last week, the legal team surrounding the Lai family told us that they don't believe Mr. Lai is getting a fair trial. We know that Mr. Lai has been denied access to a lawyer, but there is also the choice of judges. At what point does the current trial lack credibility under the rule of law?

[Benedict Rogers]

Thank you for the question.

I think there is a total lack of credibility in the trial. As you have—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Is it possible, please, sir, to have a quick answer? We have 24 seconds.

[Benedict Rogers]

Of course.

I think the trial is completely lacking in credibility.

I'll leave it at that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

I now yield the floor to Mr. Gord Johns for seven minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you, all, for the important work you're doing to advance human rights and freedoms, and for your advocacy for the release of Jimmy Lai. I can't say enough about how much we appreciate your work.

Mr. Rogers, could you just elaborate a bit more? You talked about the UPR and the UN Human Rights Council, and certainly there is a peer review mechanism there through the special procedures that allows Canada to be a bit more of a stronger advocate. Can you speak about what Canada can do through that review process and how we can help support human rights by making sure that there is a proper human rights review of China there at the UPR?

[Benedict Rogers]

Thank you.

Yes, I think that what Canada, together with like-minded countries—the 18 member states that made specific recommendations on Hong Kong—can do is to take part in the follow-up process. The UPR has now concluded in terms of recommendations, but certainly they can follow up with the People's Republic of China, with the Hong Kong government, to look at how they're responding to those recommendations.

As well, I think that Canada can join with the U.K. in specifically calling for the release of Jimmy Lai.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I appreciate that.

Ambassador Cunningham, you talked as well about the importance of Canada coming out as strongly as the U.K. did.

Can you share with us how important it is that Canada take a much stronger and bolder position, and not just make a declaration in the House of Commons? What is the importance of the Canadian government demanding the release of Jimmy Lai?

[James Cunningham]

Let me say that it's been very encouraging to me, having been involved in this effort now for a little more than two years, to see the interest you have shown in Hong Kong and Jimmy Lai, and the growing sense that this is becoming an important issue, not just because you have so many Canadians living in Hong Kong and so many Hong Kong residents in Canada, but also because of the importance that Canada attaches in its foreign relations to addressing human rights issues.

Canada can join in what we hope will be a chorus of countries in supporting Hong Kong and take an important leading role if it's interested and willing in doing so, and I hope it will be.

There is a lot of room to join this effort and we hope that this hearing and other work you are all doing will help contribute to that.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We know there are 250,000 people of Hong Kong origin living in Canada, and they're clearly dealing with the stresses, the mental health impacts, the threats and fears that their families are facing due to Chinese police station surveillance and whatnot.

Mr. Cunningham, can you also speak about the Hong Kong diaspora media that are here in Canada? What can Canada do to help support those reporters who are working in Canada and ensuring that they're able to do the work they need to do?

[James Cunningham]

I'm not the person best suited to address what's going on in Canada itself, but I am certain that their freedom to operate in Canada is not an issue.

What is an issue is how the information and the work they're doing gets relayed back in Hong Kong and Asia. To the extent that you can use your outlets and your resources to amplify their voices and to see that what they are writing about and are concerned about is heard and reflected, I think it will help build the international focus on what's going on in Hong Kong that all of us should want to see. It is the light that keeps shining on Hong Kong that will eventually, I hope, help us solve the issue of the political prisoners, and that's what our focus is on.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Cheung, you put out some really key points. I really appreciate you being so clear on what you believe needs to happen.

Can you speak a bit more in depth in terms of what more Canada needs to do in terms of monitoring the trial? You talked about the importance of calling for the release and the Magnitsky law and the monitoring at the UN.

You cited one piece that I think was something that we haven't talked about enough, and that's the foreign influence transparency registry. Can you speak a bit more in depth about that? We have the ongoing inquiry right now, but can you speak about the importance of that piece and maybe elaborate a bit more in depth?

[Fernando Cheung]

Well, I think it is well known by now that CSIS has produced reports that the Chinese Communist regime has inserted their interference on local elections—or even national elections—in Canada.

That is not new to many Hong Kong Canadians or Chinese Canadians here, but in order to stop these types of foreign interference, the first step is to create transparency. This foreign influence transparency registry would require these foreign agents to report on any formal connections or any transactions they provide to Canadian public officials. In that way, at least that would give the public an understanding of what is going on. That is really one of the first steps that the Canadian government should take to at least create some barriers to these types of interference—those boundaries.

The other thing is that we should certainly monitor the progress, the evolving, of the cases of Jimmy Lai and 47 people, as well as article 23, which is a national security law that would be produced by Hong Kong itself and is in addition to the national security law that was imposed by the Beijing government in 2020.

This article 23 would redefine state secrecy and also redefine foreign connections. In so doing, the law would prohibit a lot of exchanges or make certain connections or interactions off limit, especially for journalists and for civil society, academics and other organizations alike. In assessing and analyzing—